Dealing with Someone Who Blows Hot and Cold: Is It Worth It? (2024)

by NATALIE | Emotional Unavailability | 331 comments

miskwa on at 11:41 pm

I learned the hard way that if someone does this, not only to dump their a$$, but to initiate NC as well. It doesn’t matter why they behave this way, whatever the reason, it ain’t good.
Congress on at 11:46 pm
I have been there, done that. I was so hurt over the things he said, and his dismissive actions. It seemed to me it was all of a sudden…just from one day into the next. I did the only thing I thought I could do…I walked. He tried to get back with me through emails. As if! He hurts my feelings and no apology, no explanation, just an email? Many emails followed, no phone calls no knocks at my door. And he got no response in return. I love me, and if a guy doesn’t treat me with love, care and respect he does not have to be in my world. Yes, I hurt for a very long time, and the first year I secretly prayed for that knock at the door or the ring of the phone. It never came and I never went back.
- Joy Whitman on at 1:22 am
  been there lady. am going through it right now (again, with the same person)
  i get a feeling there will be a text/email, but no apology. or a disguised apology to see if he can walk all over me again. (refer to my post)
  you’re better off alone, truly.
  - Congress on at 5:39 pm
    
    Yes, I am better off.
    
    What are you going to do?
- SuZQ on at 3:39 am
  Wow, me too. I didn’t even get an email, and the first year felt like death, but I’m still alive.
  - Congress on at 5:41 pm
    
    Yeah it was hard but I made it through.
    
    And like you I am still alive.
    
    I decided I want something good or nothing at all.
tired_of_assanova on at 12:03 am
Nothing worse than being through the washing machine cycle and rinse of an EUM
- Congress on at 5:41 pm
  
  You can say that again.
selfhelpgal on at 12:06 am

Another amazing and dead on post. Natalie, I have been subscribing to your blog/posts for maybe a year, can’t recall. BUT everything you say seems to be exactly what I need to hear, learn, consider, admit, etc. I am no stranger to self help, therapy and consider myself very self aware, hard on self and other things. I do or feel or have familiarity with so many things in the post…and every other post you have. Whether it’s behavior I had done to someone previously, or more recently, behavior the men have dislayed, it is just unreal how well you spell it out and make me think about it in a new way. I have been with many unavialable men, and have myself in the past, been that unavailable girl. I’m too old for games and keep finding repeated patterns in these men. Anyway, I wanted to thank you for what you do, say and how much help you have given to so many through your great posts. I am not kidding when I say I get more out of your posts than any therapy or book I have read. God bless you for being real, straight up and right on. You are a gift to us all.
– My recent boyfriend (now ex) broke up with me so many times during our under one year relationship and blew hot and cold like the wind. Everything you said has merit. I don’t think he is an assclown, but he surely sent red flags early on, and was incapable of a real relationship due to many things. It was pathetic how many excuses I made for him, because deep down, and on the surface, he was a great, loving guy, just not healthy for me, and not healthy enough to be in a relationship. I was equally responsible for keeping him where he did not want to be. He wanted out, aand I thought we could make it work many times. So i cant blame him for that, he did things and said things many times to let me know it was over, yet i held on to the “I love you’s” and good things, and didnt believe or want to, the huge signs. I know he loved me, and it hurts, but it gets better all the time. Your insight is so helpful during these times.
thanks
Flavia on at 12:24 am

Natalie, thank you for another brilliant, thought-provoking article.

I would like to ask you though, do you think most people who “blow hot and cold” realize what they are doing to their “victim”? Do they actually connect the dots between their behavior and the response that they get? Is it intentional, or is it a learnt behavior patter which, in order for them to recognize it, requires a good deal of introspective and self-analysis?

Thanks!
- Laura on at 1:49 am
  
  Excellent article. I think these men know exactly what they are doing. At least the ones with a lot of practice do. It’s like a game to them. At one point in the past, I was discussing my EUM situation with my best friend, and I just could not believe how he had gone from smoldering hot to ice cold, and I was trying desperately to make sense of it, and my friend said this to me: “He groomed you like a child molester grooms a child” meaning, in the early stages, he told me everything he thought I wanted to hear, he knew just what to say and do to “set me up.” Once he had his hooks in…he went cold. It’s extremely painful. My friend hit the nail on the head and I will always remember that comment. It helped me go NC.
- Fearless on at 2:00 am
  
  Flavia
  I have questioned this too – re my ex EUM who was a master at managing my expectations through this kind of behaviour – very giving/very cold, very romantic/very distant, affectionate/hostile, intimate/withdrawn…etc.
  I was “not with” him for a very long time and; I actually came to know him pretty well – probably better than he knew himself! I sensed very clearly from the beginning that he had ‘issues with connecting’ – I tried to be understanding about his need for space/distance and was more than patient with him (read: I tolerated the intolerable and kept betting on his potential). His behaviour became very painfully predictable – I knew him so well. Was he aware of this hot/cold behaviour? Yes, definitely. (He was often embarrassed about his inability to connect, to deal with the conflict it created or to deal with ‘intimate’ discussion, especially when I raised ‘the issue’ – he squirmed and ran away a lot of the time… literally in fear; like a child caught with its hand in the cookie jar.
  
  Did he know he was doing it and did he feel emotionally limited/inadequate? Yes. Did he understand his own behaviour, what was causing it or what to do about it? No, not at all. Did he care to do anything about it? Nope, not at all. (except maybe on the final day that he ‘ran away’ out of my house never to return! I had hit a wall with him; I begged him not to do this agin, to please stay and talk about this with me – he hesitated, turned back into the room; I could see he was trying to overcome something… but he couldn’t. He left shortly afterwards with the sound of someone (a child) holding back tears. That was the end. He’s never been back. I’ve never asked him back.
  
  I believe he acted on his feelings – on instinct. Pure and simple. Whether it was hurtful or not; his own fearfulness/his need to maintain his options was way bigger than any concern he may have/could have had for me. Other than Natalie, the most helpful literature I read when I first went NC is Carter and Sokol’s “He’s Scared, She’s Scared”. The authors describe my ex and his behaviour (and my own!) to a tee! I knew nothing about this phrase ’emotional unavailability’ at the time and I was rendered speechless for days on end by the accuracy of that book (and Natalie’s blog, of course). They know their behaviour is extraordinarily hurtful but it’s instinctive behaviour . Those EUMs who care not to hurt women will leave us alone! I recall confronting my ex about some typical hurtful behaviour (can’t remember now what exactly it was). He said he was not hurting me intentionally. I said, ‘Maybe not, but you know you’re doing it”. End of conversation. (He just looked peevish.)
  
  As examples, Carter and Sokol suggest this:
  – They are totally ambivalent and are acting out their ambivalence.
  – For those with active commitment conflicts, maintaining options is always a need and a major priority.
  
  (apologies for length of my post!)
  - grace on at 12:20 pm
    fearless
    I enjoyed he’s scared, she’s scared too. What really hit home is when the authors say “What better way to hide your own fear of commitment than by getting involved with people who are unavailable?” (or words to that effect). Nat has said similar too.
    It’s taken me a long time to get here, but I believe that these crappy relationships say just as much about us as it does about them. I’m not saying we are hurtful or disrespectful (though I have been) but we are afraid. It’s worth knowing because we can apply ourselves to what we can change. We can’t make them better people, however wise we are or whizzy with words. But we can certainly make ourselves braver.
    - Fearless on at 2:05 pm
      
      Grace:
      “It’s taken me a long time to get here, but I believe that these crappy relationships say just as much about us as it does about them”
      
      Yes Grace. What concerns me most is not what it says about him but what it says about me. Before my daughter was born I was always just a bit flighty with my relationships and ‘dates’ (I’ve had really only two significant ‘normal’ relationships and, in retrospect, I did not treat these young men very well – I was young and silly about it. When my daughter was born (in 1989) I became very definitely ‘unavailable’ – single parenthood definitely altered my priorities; made me more fearful, more in need of ‘control’ and also made me feel I came with heavy baggage – gone were the days of wanton spontaneity – gone were the days of doing what I liked when I liked and perhaps most importantly, gone was my sense of eligibility; I felt I had to accept ‘less’ as I had less to contribute (my attention had to be elsewhere).
      Since then I’ve had a two year ‘thing’ with an MM and the long ‘thing’ with the ex EUM (that’s about the sum of my ‘relationships’ in 23 years. I’ve not slept with anyone other than the EUM since around 1997 and not with him for two years). I’m aware that these two (MM and EUM) relationships must have suited me – I know they did when my daughter was younger (even though I was unhappy also with the ‘situations’). As she grew older into her twenties, the nature of the ‘thing’ with the EUM became more and more obvious to me and I became less and less able to accept it.
      Anyway; I appreciate your comment Grace; I’d like you to give me any feedback when and if you can. I don’t think I know myself and what I want now. I worry about myself in the ‘relationship’ – or lack of it – regard; I’m sure I’m considered a bit of an oddity. I suspect I am a bit of a hopeless case. I know I should try to meet someone new now but I don’t have the motivation to do what I know it would take – says it all?
      
      I’m sorry if I’ve been self-indulgent and strayed off topic. Thanks for listening.
      - Learner on at 8:37 pm
        Fearless
        Wow, the more you explain your story, the more apparent it is you have been through sooo much, all while raising a daughter. Sorry to barge into your convo with Grace, but can I ask a question? When you say your “hot-and-cold” exEUM had a need to “keep his options open”, did you suspect he had another relationship on the go? or was it a general option-preserving thing you meant? Also, I just wanted to say that I have been so inspired by YOUR progress after all this, that I wonder why you may conclude you may be a “hopeless case”? From what I have read here, you seem to have a *lot* to offer inter-personally, your boundaries seem to be in place, you seem self-aware and down to earth. Your comment surprised me, but I suppose I only know what I have read about you for a few weeks. Hugs to you as you continue your journey.
        
        Fearless on at 11:58 pm
        
        Learner,
        I meant a general ‘options open thing’. He may have had other relationships in all that time but I was so much on the fringes of his ‘personal life’ that I really wouldn’t know any details about other involvements; I don’t believe he was sleeping with/sexual with anyone else, but I could be wrong about that – I have been wrong about so many things; I hardly know what to think of him now (really, I don’t dwell on or ruminate about him much – it’s too painful!) One of the few people in his (professional) circle that I met described him once (just before I went serious NC) as a ‘very private person’ – I remember thinking ‘pfft, you mean secretive, deceitful and withholding?’
        
        I was talking, however, about the hallmarks of this hot and cold behaviour – the commitment conflicted – EU people instinctively need to feel they have options; an option to be in the/a relationship and an option to be out of it. They can’t commit to one or the other – they can be neither in nor out; to choose one of those is to shut down the other, so they literally cannot choose, so they run hot then cold then hot – in/out/in/out. It’s the hokey-co*key till you die with these people. They are fence sitters. They are literally fearful of making a decision either way, so they just eff people about instead, running hot and cold to manage their options. I say this knowing that I too have been/am(?) emotionally unavailable. But I can be a ‘stayer’ if I want to be there – and I believed completely that I wanted to be with him; I can take the good with the bad in people and not sweat the small stuff, as they say, (unfortunately, with the EUM, I didn’t sweat enough over the big stuff!). But I am more of the passive kind of EU person, which makes me vulnerable to the active kind (the EU male). If I dwelt too much on how much and for how long he effed me about (now that I have the distance and clarity); on the ridiculous, farcical joke of a “relationship” that I was co-conspirator of I would spend the rest of my life weeping. I can’t do that. So I go on; and I think I am fearful of thinking too much about my part in it – it shocks me deeply. I just try to be glad I found my way out before I died in that rabbit hole (the way out came in the form of Natalie Lue; to her I will always be grateful). Thanks for your kind words Learner – appreciate!
      - grace on at 11:50 pm
        Learner
        Keeping options open isn’t limited to having another person on the go. What’s more pernicious is the need to maintain “independence” or a fear of depending on someone. The person can’t commit to be being single and can’t commit to the relationship, even if they CAN can commit to being faithful (in the limited sense of not having anyone else). Blowing hot and cold works for them. As soon as the person feels they are getting too close or that the other person is getting too close, they retreat. But don’t get screwed into thinking “Oh, if I am more understanding/communicate better he/she will become less scared”. The more effort you put in the more they realise they can do whatever they want and you will still be there. They’re entirely in their comfort zone – maintaining their oh-so-cherished independence while still getting the benefits of a relationship (company, entertainment, something to do, sex). Meantime, the other person feels left out in the cold.
        fearless
        We have to lose the excuses. I’m too weird. I’m too depressed. I’ve got a daughter/son/a cat. I’m too financially insecure. I’m too successful. I’m not successful enough. My parents are nutters. I’m in my 20s/30s/40s/50s/60s/70s. I’m sick. I live on the moon. I’m fat/too skinny/ too flat chested. I’m menopausal. I’m post menopausal. I’m too young. I’m too old. My past is too complicated. I’m too nice. I’m not nice enough. I’m too busy.
        At the heart of it, we don’t feel good enough. Through every stage of our life we just find new excuses for why we can’t be in a proper relationship. I get it’s not easy, it takes time and effort. It can be uncomfortable. And downright scary. But it’s far far far from impossible if only we were able to accept love.
        If we can’t accept love, it works very well for us to be with someone who isn’t giving it. And while your case may seem particularly “chronic”, you simply played it out with one man, while others of us have played it out with several men. I don’t see one of those as being better or worse than the other. You’re kinda looking for another stick to beat yourself with.
        Fearless on at 1:40 pm
        
        Yes Grace. At the heart of it, I didn’t/don’t feel good enough. I accept totally that although I hated the the ‘hot and cold’ (I found it very painful and very confusing), that it also worked well enough for me for long enough (in a twisted masoch*stic way it saved me having to make any decisions of my own or confront my own fearfulness) – the ‘cold’ re-affirmed to me that I certainly would get exactly what I expected from ‘love’ – that I wasn’t good enough for it (for all manner of reasons); that was confirmed for me, time and time and time again.
        I appreciate too your comment that I merely played it out with one man rather than with many. I hadn’t thought of that; it makes perfect sense. Thanks. Thinking of what you have said, I think that somewhere in the recesses of my head I believe that men have very high expectations when it comes to women – too old, not fit enough, has wrinkles, wears glasses,isn’t blonde, isn’t dead glamorous, is menopausal… etc., as you say.
        
        In the past, when I really like a guy my list of ‘not good enoughs’ could make me fearful and anxious. I think I still fear the ‘can’t be good enough’ (for some asshole!) anxiety so that somewhere in my head I just don’t want to go there again – or more that I don’t want to be pro-active in seeking it out (but I’m considering ways now of giving love a chance!!); I can like myself well enough so long as I am not depending on someone else to like/love me too! I don’t want to put myself in the hands of someone else like that again, as I did with the EUM – where that person will dictate how I feel about me. I think that is the “independence” I am enjoying about my life now – I get to decide now what think of me (I fear losing that again).
        Tulipa on at 10:28 pm
        The only thing I could do while reading the above comments was nod my head and say wow that’s me wow that’s him.
        I am quite pleased that I have made some progress.
        I had lunch with four guys.
        One guy was married so off limits and he’s very happy we drank a toast to his news that he is about to become a father again.
        One guy’s dating premise was “every woman is after my money” in the past I could have ran myself ragged and gone broke myself trying to prove him wrong. I was a bit shocked by it and said that isn’t true how can you believe that? but shut up once I thought hey its not my job to “fix” him.
        Another guy was someone who I would have immediately been attracted to in the past aloof and stand offish the very challenge I like. It transpired in later conversation he had a girlfriend who guess what lived overseas… I laughed to myself. I was happy I didn’t want to flirt chat or chase him that is progress I am learning those stand alone guys are standing alone because that is where they choose to be.
        The fourth guy is a friend of mine who invited me to lunch in first place.
        Grace you give me hope that we can keep progressing along getting better.
        Fearless I relate so much to what you say and it is hard to stop and think wow I let him treat me in such and such a way where was my head ?
        Fearless on at 1:51 pm
        
        Tulipa
        
        You are further ahead than me. Well done; sounds like you know what you want. That’s my EU trouble!
        
        I asked myself last night:
        
        ‘Fearless, do you want to be in a relationship or not?’
        
        Answer: Yes.
        Quick re-think on answer one: And no.
        
        I run hot and cold with the idea. Depends. On pleasant Saturday evenings when I’ve nothing particular to do I often wish I was in a relationship – had someone to go out to dinner with/a walk with/watch a movie with etc.
        
        On the other hand, after a long and exhausting day/week at work when I finally tuck myself into bed, grateful to put my head down, I often think ‘I couldn’t be doing with some man here wanting sex from me or snoring his head off. It would cause a row’
        
        I also know that these thoughts are silly.
        
        I questioned myself further: Enough of the ambivalence – no more excuses. Decide, Fearless, on balance, would you like to be in a relationship or not? yes. or. no.
        
        Answer: Yes, of course, I would.
        Quick rethink on answer one: IF it was a good relationship.
        
        And at that it struck me: I don’t know (or don’t remember) what a good relationship feels like.
        
        When I think of “relationship”. I associate it with abandonment anxiety (BR as helped me to understand that – I never knew that before). I also associate it, though lesser so, with feeling ‘obliged’ and I don’t like feeling ‘obliged’ – let’s call it obligation anxiety.
        
        I had a good relationship with my first boyfriend at 16 years old until I was about 22, but we were young and both moved on eventually. My second boyfriend was great for a while, but that went tit* up after two years. I ended up very hurt and it took me too long to get over it. Since then I have only ever found relationships difficult, hurtful and very very disappointing (I own my part in that – in my choices. I got the relationships I asked for).
        
        It sounds very simple to say to myself, ‘then what you know you want, Fearless, is a good relationship’. I suppose coming to that “decision” is progress for me!
        
        So, new question: Fearless, do you want to be in a good relationship (before you die!).
        
        Answer: Yes, I would like that.
        
        No disclaimer!
        
        Question 2: Fearless, are you willing to put in some effort to make that happen/give it a chance to happen?
        Answer: Yes. I am willing to put myself out there. But I’ve said that before, I think (eeek)
        
        Now, taking action, committing to that in a consistent way – that’s what I need to think about and work on. I seriously need to dump my hot and cold approach to myself and my future. I’m in and I’m out. I’m up for it then I’m running towards my comfort zone. Argh. I am at least seeing my running hot and cold with myself and my needs and desires as a really serious issue that has to be dealt with. So, progress? Or am I still kidding myself?
        blueberry girl on at 6:09 pm
        
        Fearless, you’ve pulled me out of the water more times than you realize. You’re a very wise lady and I have faith you will figure this one out.
        
        My thoughts after reading your post are maybe you’re putting too much pressure on yourself, which (and I mean this lovingly) is causing you fear and anxiety. Why not just be open to some new experiences, hobbies, places to hang out and see what and who is out there? How about we put it out to the universe asking for a loving partner (who doesn’t snore) for Fearless?
        
        Fearless on at 10:32 pm
        
        Blueberry
        “Fearless, you’ve pulled me out of the water more times than you realize.”
        
        Thanks for that (and the rest). I didn’t know that. It’s good to know. I totally agree with the rest – just to get out there – be available (that’ll be a horse of a different colour! ha.) – and see what’s up! Believe not or not I think the trouble is I put *no* pressure on myself at all (I do what I like). This is what I mean (and agree with you about) a wee bit more pressure on myself to be pro-active in getting out there and mingling with some new people couldn’t do me a bit of harm. I’m on getting on that bus! Thank you so much for your encouragement.
        
        runnergirl on at 5:48 am
        
        Hey Fearless, you’ve pulled me out of the water many, many times too (as have many others). I’d say YES, with regards to your progress question. Mingling with some new folks is just mingling with some new folks. Even a date would be, well, just a date! It took me running hot and cold before I could answer your last two questions affirmatively and then to trust my judgment even though I wobble a bit. You’ll be ready when you are ready. But remember, there’s no fire.
        Okay, it’s out there…a loving partner who doesn’t snore for Fearless!
        
        grace on at 6:15 pm
        fearless
        It’s progress and we need to understand that no-one is 100% ready. I’m not 100% ready to be in a relationship. However, I don’t use that as an excuse to ignore him, or to blow hot and cold, or make excuses. I am committed to treating him decently, not letting the fantasizing or anxiety get the better of me, to keeping my word and to the fact that one day I may very well have to live a life of compromise over when I eat, what I eat, when I go to bed,what I do with my time. All those things you can be selfish about when you’re single. But I consider the sacrifice of freedom to be worth it.
        You know it took me a long time to get here and I don’t regret a day of it. I’m not done yet. I am still learning what it is to love and be loved. I’ve currently got one parent in hospital and one in a nursing home. in this time of trouble I am learning to love and forgive. The man has been a huge help to me. Reassuring, understanding, optimistic. A good man really can lighten the load and not just be a burden on you!
        
        Fearless on at 10:43 pm
        
        Grace,
        Thanks. I’m sorry things are tough for you with your parents; with your dad in hospital now too and am so glad your man is there for you; you so deserve some caring and loving support. jumping into the relationship water after so much hurt, even if self-inflicted, is about being brave, as you said above.
        “A good man really can lighten the load and not just be a burden on you!”
        Yep. I’m aware of that too (I’ve seen it happen to other people – even to me at times) or my answer to all my ‘relationship questions’ would be ‘no effing way’ 🙂
        
        Tulipa on at 1:37 am
        Fearless,
        I think my comment is more I know what I don’t want as in I no longer want the man in the corner nor the man I would have to prove his thinking is faulty by bending over backwards.
        That is as far as I have progressed, but it is a start.
        I can state in all certainity that I have not had a single healthy relationship when I was younger I was quite the ass clown with hot and cold behaviour disappearing etc. Then I switched and put with all kinds of shady behaviour.
        When I thought about a healthy relationship I would literally feel fear. Even now it has lessened but dig deep enough and many fears are still there.
        I’ve a way to go in loving myself and getting other stuff right.
        You have made progress Fearless for one you are no longer in contact with your ex eum and have not been for a long time.
        I think it takes time to assess and sort through everything that happened in that relationship and you written many conclusions of what you will no longer put up with in a relationship and you are willing to learn.
        I don’t think you are kidding yourself at all and also what comes through in your comments is you know there is still some work to do on yourself to prepare you for that healthy relationship, and you can get there.
        There are people out there who do no self examination and die in unhappy relationships thinking that is the best they can do I think of the woman I used to live next door to 19 years she had endured of him physically abusing her and she was still hanging on in there waiting for him to change sad.
        So no you are not kidding yourself, Fearless, you have made progress and are still on the journey which can take you to where you want to go even if that is where you are a peace with yourself and happy single or within a relationship.
        
        Fearless on at 7:46 pm
        
        Tulipa and runner (above)
        
        Thanks for your comments. I wish you both all good things!
Julia on at 12:25 am
Sounds like the sociopath/narcissist I was involved with for 4 years. Exactly.
- Congress on at 5:44 pm
  
  Four years is a long time to deal with that.
  
  I am glad you got out.
Kathie on at 12:29 am

Another awesome article Nat… I so wish I had found this site 3-4 yrs ago.
They were years wasted on a EUM.. Although, at the time I didnt know what a EUM was.. I knew there was something amiss but it was hard to figure it out, and I thought it was something about me… ughhh .. WE were both coming off long marriages , kids, hitting middle age… I was happy for the most part because I had just come out of a yukky marriage and this man was total opposite of my ex-husband. Successful, handsome, attentive, caring, exciting, romantic and I got sucked into a fantasy relationship and jumped right up on that emotional rollercoaster ride and all that goes along with it.. Then after 9yrs together I was replaced, unbeknownst to be he had been out shopping for my replacement.
For the most part I am glad its over, I am off that ride, and I have had time to heal. Been NC for most of time since I caught him. Theres nothing to talk about, nothing to say. I use to want him to say HE WAS SORRY, or HE FELT BAD FOR HURTING ME… Never happaned & I am over wishing for that. He’s not capable of feeling bad for hurting someone he professed to love even after he cheated. Its all about his needs, his wants, him, him , him…. YUK… I know I deserve better, always did.
Its been almost a year. I am so much better and see everything so clearly now. I know I exhibited some EU behavior too or it would have never lasted as long as it did. I am working on that . Enjoying my time alone, not ready to enter the dating world yet but I hope someday someone comes along that shows me the care, love, respect I deserve & am willing to offer.. I thank you all for sharing your stories,.It gives me comfort ,encouragement & hope.
Gina on at 12:35 am

Nat I SO needed this post today!! My mistake is that I listen to my silly girlfriend, who said I was overreacting and did not know when a guy was really interested in me (my ex was aggressively pursuing me in the beginning). Instead, I should have followed the advice in your blog. I realized that I should have followed my first mind and not got involved with the ex in the first place. There were some good things that did come out of the relationship though: When he was blowing hot, he took care of me when I was sick and fixed up my house. And when I dumped him, I felt 75% relieved and 25% sad. For your next blog can you write about how to attract an emotionally available man like the one you found?
Felicity on at 1:06 am

Natalie,
You are have a detective mind. I found this so helpful.
Question: when it comes to having your expectations managed down, how do you know the difference between that and giving someone reasonable space to be busy indeed in another part of his life?

I have a married work friend of whom I am very fond indeed. Nothing has happened. But my emotions have become entangled. I get to a balanced place and think I have been imagining the push pull stuff ie I have a great work friend who happens to be attractive and I have made too much of things in the past, it was all in my head…

However, his behaviour also triggers this…Recently I was given a lot of support by this work colleague in a challenging aspect of my job. It really helped me and I found myself feeling open and trusting and happy about his friendship and yes having to keep my emotions in check…’ I sent an appreciative email and one containing a related question. No response. The next day he was in touch with another colleague about an event which also involved me.. I sent various emails and left a message with him about it. No contact since then. Now, he is super busy etc so it could also be interpreted as that. But I do feel that he shows up and has quite an impact on me and then drops everything to go on to his next role and with it me.

Perhaps I have always been just a friend and the casualness is simply the way he is with all ‘friends’. Or perhaps there is an element of him managing me up and down. I don’t know how to know the difference.
- titi on at 9:29 am
  
  You’re asking all the wrong questions. He’s married. Unavailable. Period. Stop kidding yourself, you don’t want just a friendship with him. Ask yourself why do you so desperately need his attention.
- grace on at 12:08 pm
  
  Felicity
  You are in danger. He is married. Maybe he has sensed that the two of you are going too far (I certainly sense it) and is retreating. Don’t get it twisted and think that “normal rules”of relationships apply. It boggles my mind that women get upset a MM isn’t calling, responding to their emails, or not acting like a friend/ boyfriend (even though I’ve done it myself). HE IS MARRIED. He can’t be your boyfriend and it’s very unlikely he can be your friend. There are plenty of other people on the planet. Stop throwing yourself into the fire because you need to prove you’re attractive/interesting/friendworthy. If you thought better of yourself you wouldn’t be doing this. Step away and work on your own issues, on your own or with professional help, and without the “benefit” of someone else’s husband.
  When you’re married, would you like it if another woman posted a comment like this about your husband? If you have no regard for his wife, at least respect yourself and quit this humiliation.
  Yes I’m being hard on you but it’s nothing like the barrowful of sh*te coming your way if you pursue this.
- tired_of_assanova on at 11:23 pm
  
  Fantasy alarm!!
  
  1. He’s married
  2. He’s at work (want to detonate a an explosion of dirty laundry in your workplace? Don’t go there!)
  3. Distance (at work) and crumb communication (e-mail) – FANTASY ALERT!!
  
  Stop the e-mailing! You are putting yourself at HUGE risk and are ripe for a fantasy relationship, or affair! STOP! And go see a psychologist ASAP to sort this one out.
- runnergirl on at 11:35 pm
  Hey Felicity like Titi said, you are focusing on the wrong questions. A married man should not be blowing hot or cold. There’s no such thing. I’d suggest focusing on why you are “fond” of a MM and “having to keep my emotions in check”, and “has quite an impact on you”. Those are red flags if the feelings are directed toward a MM. BTW, the affair with the exMM I was involved with for 2 years started at work too. It’s a common thread. He was oh so helpful too. Blech. Those were two very miserable years and my story sounds like all the other OW stories on this blog (and there are tons) and other blogs as well. MISERABLE. I wish I could save all the border-line OW’s from that experience. It’s such a demeaning, soul-destroying experience. So I’m only trying to be helpful and I don’t mean to be mean.
  He may be super busy and “blowing cold/managing you down” because he has a wife (kids?) and a full-time job. So when you don’t hear back, you could think about what he may be doing with his wife. Shopping, going to dinner, a picnic, sipping wine on the patio, making love to his wife?
  Grace is spot on. You are in danger girl and there is a barrowful of sh*te ahead if you chose to continue. It’s taken me almost a year and a half to dig out from under that barrowful of sh*te. We’ll be here when it goes tit* up. Good luck to you…step away from the ledge and focus on YOU.
  - runnergirl on at 11:45 pm
    
    Opps one more thing Felicity, if you choose to be a mistress, you will have to accept being an option and the fact the MM “blows cold”. They inevitably have to disappear on a regular basis in order to live their real life with their wife. I hope you’ll take some time to think about things and read everything Nat has written about being an OW. I found that it meant a lot about my unavailability.
Kelli on at 12:08 am

Natalie,

This is an excellent post in breaking down what MOST personality disordered (narcissists, psychopaths, sociopaths), do. Your discussions on your posts are actually quite relevant to the BEHAVIOR of said disorders. EUM’s and assclowns. I appreciate your ability to break it down so well, into such simple terms. I believe that your blog sends many of those “afflicted” by the assclowns and EUM’s. onto pages on face book like mine and many others, or like my blog that attach a label to what is more than shady behavior and where further healing can take place. After all, it is about us in the end, not them, once we reach AWARENESS in why we wind up with these men over and over.

Speaking of which, I’m adding a post here from my blog about part of the behavior you have so aptly described. The fast forward is the “love bombing” that EUM’s and Assclowns are known for. I explain why this portion of the “illusion” is so dangerous.

Many blessings to you and everyone here!
- Tanzanite on at 12:56 am
  
  Kelli
  
  Loved your blog.
  
  Never heard it called love bombing before.It’s all true, especially the last paragraph.
Joy Whitman on at 1:13 am

so true and i stayed in a pseudo relationship like this for over six years, with someone that would claim he couldn’t give me what i wanted and when i would try to leave, would pour it on thick, all the while he had a ‘girlfriend’ who was the one he was with outwardly, in addition to several others that he would take out on dates or simply sleep with. i was always somewhere in the middle of simply sleep with and occasionally date. until, i would find out about his gf’s and double lives he was leading, then i became a whor*, a c*nt, a bitch, worthless…any name you can think of. no more! never again!
Tinkerbell on at 12:27 am
Well, it’s coming up on a year now, that I went NC on an EUM. He was so good at his game and I was so naive because I had been married to a good man for many years who died, and I had never associated with anybody like this A-hole. He was a master of blowing hot and cold. He swept me off my feet and once he knew he’d roped me in real good he started disappearing for long periods (a month, six weeks) and I would be frantic wanting to know what I had done to cause this behavior in him. Finally, after 6 months of his shenanigans I was totally fed up and went NC. The only way he could reach me was to come to my front door and I knew he would not lower his foolish pride to do that. I have never gone back and given him another chance. There have been times when I have actually cried and begged God to send me a good man who I could love safely and would love me without emotional abuse. It has been very very hard, but I have not allowed myself to fall that low again. I am much stronger and much smarter now. I’ve learned the importance of keeping your wits about you and not going off the deep end with men. Loving yourself first and foremost is the only way to go. It was a very tough lesson, but one I needed to learn. Now, I’m talking to a very nice gentleman (I think) but I’m going to take is very slowwwwwllly. I’m hoping it works out, but if it doesn’t I will survive and very well, thank you.
- Fearless on at 2:32 am
  
  Tinkerbell
  
  Sorry you have experienced this. I think I was naive too when I met ex EUM (not to negate my own kind of emotional unavailability at that time). I had never come across this kind of ambiguity in a man I was seeing before; they were always either interested or not interested; yes I have gone out with guys who wanted to treat me like a booty call; but I recognised that (it was fairly obvious to me); It’s the mixed messages that stumped me. Though I see now that the very fact that they are *mixed messages makes them pretty clear signs that I should have got the hell out of there!
Janine on at 1:43 am

YES!!! Right on the nose and A-to-the-men, Nat! Totally on target!
L. on at 1:50 am

This describes my experience with an EUM to a T. It feels great to finally have my strength and confidence back. After much work and reflection, I now value myself too much to succumb to this toxic pattern ever again. Thanks for this article, hopefully it will help others avoid similar pain.
Elizabeth on at 1:51 am

This is my life exactly! I’m living this and it’s so scary true. I’ve been with my boyfriend for 3 1/2 years and he has this down to a science. He makes me feel I am crazy when one minute he is future faking and plans our life together and the next barely communicating and telling me how “busy” he is…

He definately loves the newness factor and chases that with every woman he’s been with and then when he catches them gets bored. And he’s just so danged charming and friendly you don’t see it coming.

We are arguing at this moment and of course all of his distance is my fault because I expect too much!

Run away as fast as you can!!

There is so much mlre to this and i wish i could express it all and get advice. I wish I had someone to help me through this…I feel so alone and I’m so tired of feeling like its my fault…this article is literally whys happening to me.
- A on at 3:57 pm
  
  Elizabeth,
  
  I think you know the answer. He has been like this for 3 1/2 years. If he has not changed in this time, why would he change now?
  
  You don’t have the ability to change him or his behaviour, but you can control your own choices. He has issues that have nothing to do with you. Decide that you deserve more than this and end it. The only thing worse than being treated poorly for 3 1/2 years is sticking around for another 1, 3, 5, years….
Tinkerbell189 on at 2:10 am

I have read so many things on here that have helped me become self aware, especially things like only valuing love from a reluctant source. My problem is that though I understand how things are working, my self esteem is still so low that the temporary satisfaction always lures me in. I feel out of control.
ValleyForgeLady on at 2:30 am

Natalie your commentary is so accurate. I am ashamed to have married two men like this. And continued the pattern in other realtionships. The last one gave me symptoms that were close to being Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. The other day I saw a photo of him and remembered his borish behavior and was shocked to realize that I put up with him. After hearing the details of the Coaching Scandals at Penn State, I felt I could relate to the victims since I feel like I was sexually abused.

I am firm in my committment to not allowing any bad behavior in the future. However, if I am going to meet a man……the only way seems to be on line dating. The on line guys all seem to have the personality profiles of dangerous men. If they are good looking and confident……I freeze.

I hear from men all over the country that think I am beautiful..but since most of them are so far away it means nothing. The men close to me are so elusive. They communicate and often break the dates before we meet.

I am a new empty nester. For 10 years while I was a single parent to one very wonderful daughter, I kept most of the bad men out of my life and away from my daughter. Now that I am truly avaialable, I am feeling so hopeless about finding a man who could love me. Is there hope?
- grace on at 11:57 am
  
  “Now that I am truly avaialable, I am feeling so hopeless about finding a man who could love me. Is there hope?”
  Availability isn’t just about your marital status, it’s your state of mind. If that is how you feel, then you’re not emotionally available. That pessimism is self-fulfilling.
  Yes, there is hope, if I at 47 after six years of no-dating can meet someone kind and caring then so can you.
  Also, don’t just do online dating. There are agencies that will set up social events for singles, there’s meet up, book groups, wine tasting courses, cookery classes, church, volunteer work.
  Even if you do end up meeting someone online instead, it’s good to have your own interests. I’m not a gamplayer but no woman (or man) should be sitting home alone waiting for someone to call.
Happy Girl on at 2:57 am

“When you won’t give them the time of day or they don’t know if you’re interested or they don’t know if you’re ‘buying’ what they’re ‘selling’ (read: a relationship and a person that’s not actually available), the lack of control makes you very desirable. They get curious.”

I call this and similar behavior “The Mommy Issue.” (If we have “Daddy Issues”, then there is DEFINITELY such a thing). Behind each man who was turned on only by my temper or threat to leave after month 3 was an unattentive, mild to flat out abusive mother. And they had clearly NOT gotten over it. And it was a lost lose lose situation. If I act nice I’m boring, if act logical I’m mind f*cking, and if act pissed I’m like your mother? Effing sweet-THAT’s what I want out of a long term relationship. A permanent performance in the mental gymnastics all around competition where I’m never, ever going to win a medal. EVER. And also, the way I “act” isn’t an “ACT”. But the fact that they see it that way is a huge red flag regarding their own behavior.

The best thing I have ever done for myself was spend the last 2 years, among many other things, looking in the mirror and figuring out anything that reflected them-and it finally got better when I used that to figure out MYSELF.
- selfhelpgal on at 6:08 pm
  
  Happy Gal
  Amen, right on. Great insight, I like the mental gymnastics. Everything you said has rang true. I feel like if I can’t win either at times. If you’re fun and silly, that’s great, if you are determined and have to have a real talk, that’s bad. You’re either too fun, not fun enough, too much like their ex wife or ex girlfriend who “screwed them over.” I can related because I use to not treat men with the respect they deserve. Now I seem to keep finding EUM….they love my independence and spunk and fun side, but wholy *hit when they have to actually man up and see a serious or upset side. They want to escape as fast as possible when you have to address their hot/cold behavior. BLAH….I hope I am done with ever dating another EUM. natalie’s blog has helped me more than anything, really. When i was younger i dated great men, andi was emotionally or in many ways (time, etc) unavialable. It just is hard to tell in the beginning since people put on their best face/mask and it’s all la la de da. But usually I find, within 3 months, you start seeing the behavior to be fair, & they see yours. That or you are just not the right gal for them/vice versa. I have reached out to those men in my past that i hurt, and made amends because i know the damage and scars it can cause. Wouldnt it be nice if one of these EUM’s had the courtesy to do the same, lol. Actually i have had a few tell me how sorry they were…and it did help…but only temporarily. The issue lies within what we choose to accept for ourselves, and our self esteeem.
  I liked your post a lot, thanks.
Adriana on at 3:28 am
Ugh. What if you recognize this from the other side? What if it’s me who keeps flip-flapping, disappearing, wants to be together, doesn’t want to be together? My boyfriend is pretty consistent actually. The problem is that we are in a long-distance relationship now. We knew each other before long distance and then I had to move for job. My current job (academic) is temporary and I need to find a permanent one which hopefully will happen next year. He agreed to move when I get a permanent place. For now we talk, Skype, text on a daily basis and see each other once a month for 4-5 days (we are 6 hours apart). My problem is that I don’t believe he’ll move for me and no amount of persuading otherwise helps 😛 I am trying to do my best but insecurities keep kicking in and I start behaving erratically. I can’t say that all of our problems are because of me but my own behavior sure doesn’t help. I like the guy a lot and I want a healthy relationship so much 🙁
- Adriana on at 3:29 am
  
  Oops, wrong smiley face. Nothing to be happy about, of course.
- grace on at 11:45 am
  
  Adriana
  I often want to bolt from the man I’m seeing. Not while I’m with him. When I’m with him I feel entirely comfortable. But when I get home. I think to myself “This is never going to work! I need to stop it before we get in too deep!”
  Everyone has fears, it IS a big deal to love someone, have sex, commit to them, move in, get married (in whatever order). I think we don’t realise what a big deal it is. “I’ve seen him a few times, we’ve done xyz, I like him. He’s nice to me. HE’S THE ONE. Ergo, I’m a committed person!” Er, no, as Nat said to me “slow your roll”.
  Your fears, I think, are more rational than chucking yourself headlong at someone. However, if you two have known each a while, like each other, if you get on, if you share the same values, if you both think you could have a future together, then you have to make the decision, as you do when you to go to work, to get on with the job in hand.
  It’s not the same as committing yourself to a no-hope situation. From what you’ve said, it seems you would be committing yourself to a yes-hope situation. And commit to yourself and to your values. That is what will enable you to walk away if it doesn’t work out.
  It is a risk. It’s a better risk than, say, an affair with a MM, or chasing a playa, or being with someone who mistreats you/disappears/blows hot and cold. But it’s still a risk.
  Beware the temptation to throw in the towel because you need to control the outcome. If I finish with the man tomorrow I will know tomorrow how it turns out. There’s comfort in that. If I keep seeing him, I need to have faith, make an effort, be mindful. If you want a healthy relationship, that’s what you have to do. No-one is going to do it for you and he can’t do it for you.
  I’m coming to grips with the fact that we have responsibility for ourselves and our behaviour. We have to live what we believe.
- Adriana on at 2:28 pm
  
  Grace, thank you for your reply. Yes, that’s how I feel. “This is never going to work! I must get out before I got hurt/invested more of myself/got my hopes up/etc”. Of course, I effectively end up hurting myself instead. And this frantic desire to control the outcome… I feel like the sky is falling down each time things don’t work out as I hoped they would. I think I always had low self-esteem and anxiety issues. Low self-esteem is ugly. Usually a lot of negative thoughts are going through my head. Each of those needs to be challenged, disproved, stopped in its tracks. It’s exhausting process but yes, nobody can do it for me. I also have trouble believing that somebody can love me. “You love me? Really? Why would you do such a thing?!” I guess I have a long road ahead of me and probably it would be better to deal with it while not dating anybody. But I don’t want this relationship to end because this is a promising relationship… Hence, I struggle with this as I go 😛
robyn on at 3:29 am

Don’t waste your time wondering what you did wrong, or if they know the harm they’re inflicting on you… just turn your back and walk away.

They’re doing the same to you, over and over again.

Once you’re onto their game… quit. Game over. Save yourself. Don’t worry about that sorry b…..d because he sure as heck isn’t worrying about you.
- Gina on at 8:44 am
  
  AMEN, Robin! AMEN!
Becca on at 4:10 am

Wow! Natalie, you have hit the nail right on the head!
I have been wracking my brain for the past 3 or so months thinking “what did i do to make him change?”, “why did he suddenly just turn into a jerk towards the end?” I always kept wondering why i never really knew where i stood with him and why our relationship always struggled to go forward and so forth. Nuh uh!, sure i have my issues to work on, which I am in the process of doing, but this post has put it ALL into perspective. THANK YOU!!!
MovingOn on at 4:39 am

Thank you so much for all of your posts. This describes a relationship I was in & out of for several years. After finding your site & reading your articles I dumped him & went “no contact”. It has been five months now & I’m so happy I did it & am taking care of myself & treating myself with love, care & respect. You have a way of describing these relationships that clears up the confusion & helps a person realize that they are worth more than these crumb relationships. You are helping so many people.
Lilian Lauderdale on at 6:09 am
This post couldn’t come at a more perfect time. Right this minute I am making a pledge to go NC with my EUM. This behavior has gone from blowing hot and cold to outright abusive treatment. I get the cold shoulder and silent treatment any time I say something he doesn’t like or if I express any dissatisfaction with the mere crumbs I get. I never know how long he won’t speak to me or when he will choose to get in touch with me. He loves to tell me he is going to call and then not call! Then, if and when I express how hurtful this treatment is, I am told how disrespectful I am for talking to him in this way and that he won’t sit there and listen to me point out his imperfections – even though I am trying to have a mature conversation with honest communication expressed in a respectful manner. Then…he just hangs up on me. Enough is enough.
- Learner on at 8:45 pm
  
  Lillian
  Good for you in getting to the “enough is enough” point. He does not sound like a caring, accountable man. I wish you strength as you begin NC. You may want to order Natalie’s NCR ebook if you have not already.
- Learner on at 4:31 pm
  
  Lillian,
  
  I just responded to you over on Natalie’s “super-busy” post. Just wanted to add that the exMM displayed similar behaviour with me. He said I should not point out his flaws, but should focus on his strengths. He never hung up on me on the phone, but a couple of times would suddenly leave a Messenger chat if I typed something he didn’t want to hear. Passive aggression personified. Good luck to you!
  - Lilian Lauderdale on at 9:48 pm
    
    Yea he definitely hangs up on me and then sends me an apology text about an hour after saying, “I’m sorry I’m just really upset.” Terrible.
    
    Thanks for all your responses. It’s great to just write my story out and read it back over myself, but also great to get everyone’s feedback. It’s a relief just to have a place to openly talk about what’s going on without the fear of judgement. These situations can be very lonely and shameful. So thanks again to you and everyone here at BR.
    - Fearless on at 11:57 pm
      
      “These situations can be very lonely and shameful.”
      
      So true. I confided the details of my epic EUM relationsh*t with only one good friend for a long time; she too was involved in a similar assclown hot and cold situation, so we understood each other and bemoaned our lot together for a veeerry long time. Her assclown disappeared for good eventually when he married – clean out of nowhere – a third(!) and hitherto unheard of other woman that he had on the go. Once my friend was cleared of her ‘problem’; I couldn’t talk to her so freely about mine; I’d feel pressured by her; she’d always phone and ask about my now ex EUM, with questions like ‘what’s happening with you two?’/ ‘what’s going on?’ / ‘are you still seeing him’ / why this?… why that?… when is he? where is he? ‘(like I f*cking knew the answers!). It brought on real anxiety for me every time she phoned me (and I care for her a great deal!) It also kind of annoyed me that she couched her own NC as if it was her doing when I knew she’d still see her ex if he ran hot again with her (married or not!).
      
      Anyway, my point is that I stopped confiding in my only confidante (I felt so ashamed of the way I was being treated: the on and off/hot and cold/ now you see him now you don’t). Yes, one of the very worst things about these situations is how isolating, and shameful and lonely they are.
      
      I was constantly trying to avoid talking about it, about him, ducking and diving the questions people tend to ask, like “so are you still seeing x?”
      And the bubble above my head would be screaming, “No!! effing haven’t heard from him for effing five weeks since I effing grumbled that he had been too busy to pick up an effing phone. I’m on effing punishment time! Please don’t ask me about him!”
      
      Or they’d ask, perfectly innocently, “so where is x tonight?” and the bubble above my head would be screaming “How the eff should know! He tells me nothing; I effing hate him. I haven’t seen him for weeks – he’s ignoring me. Again!” And… “Why do you people not effing get it yet!” (lol). Of course, those who knew me well enough, did get it, only too well.
      
      The whole thing makes your interactions with people less authentic or natural – and they notice. One of the great things about being NC is that you can be totally yourself again, without fear of the shame (and the isolation and the loneliness.)
- Fearless on at 5:56 pm
  
  Lilian,
  Sounds like you’re talking about my ex EUM! Eewww. Horrid.
- runnergirl on at 3:30 am
  
  Hey Lilian, I would like to join the chorus in supporting your decision to go NC. Silent treatment is a particularly abusive form of blowing cold. Practically, you could use this silent treatment as an opportunity to gather your strength to implement NC. The first step is to NOT RESPOND once he thinks he’s sufficiently punished you and decides to dial you back up. Based on Nat’s posts and what I experienced, he’ll go bonkers because he thinks he lost control and he’ll blow hotter than a desert wind in August or become a co*ckroach after a nuclear bomb. It’s up to you and you have to stand firm. Everyday you spend in this quicksand, struggling to get him to see the light, is one more day you go under. I didn’t get the silent treatment. When I expressed my disgust of being an OW, I got met with a wall of anger as to how terrible it is for him! This is how twisted it was for me, I’d end up apologizing to him for cheating on his wife and treating me like dirt. Yup, enough is enough. It’s time to fold, stop betting on potential, get untwisted, and get the hell out of the quicksand. Reading all the comments on this thread so reminded me of quicksand. It can swallow you. Get Natalie’s books ASAP.
Betty on at 6:24 am

Sounds exactly like I guy I know from Woodbridge, NJ, USA
MaryC on at 9:54 am

I have a picture in my head of pizza. For me at first its wonderful all hot and steamy but then when its cold its quite gross. I know I know alot of folks like cold pizza but I’m not one of them just like I don’t like a relationship that’s one day hot the next day cold.
RANA on at 10:00 am

hello all,
i have not gone into this, i only had one relationship which was my engagement, fast forwarding engagement…
for me a man that loves you won’t leave you questioning… a man that changes temperature is not a man in love, a man taht can not be present for you emotionally at all times may not be a man that makes a good long term partner. Being in love with him is emotionally exhausting.
They blow hot and cold because they are keeping options open.
have a nice day all
Bella on at 10:09 am

I needed this so much! I just burst out laughing at the first few paragraphs because it describes my life down to a T right now. I was actually singing Katy Perry’s Hot and Cold just yesterday because that was exactly what I was feeling.
“The moment that you allow someone to be inconsistent, you are allowing your expectations to be managed down.”
I have worked too hard on myself these past 3 years to allow someone to treat me in such a mediocre manner. I deserve better than crumbs. Fullstop.
HS on at 10:20 am

NML, wow, I loved it. You are spot on again: “In my mind, I would get involved with someone, incidentally who I probably didn’t even like that much, and they would be blowing seriously hot and then ‘something about me’ would make them become unavailable and start blowing lukewarm or cold. ” That what I keep thinking! My last AC told me: “You don’t know what you want”, because by his confusing behaviour, I became confused and somehow blamed myself of his unavailability. I am glad that I started to see psychologist, I will try to change my attitude towards men, and give them up at least for six months!
Scarlet on at 11:04 am
I have been let down yet again. But I do not know how to change this. I do not know how to actually walk away, without folding when he contacts me with another excuse. How do I find the courage.
- Sarah on at 3:52 pm
  
  Scarlet,
  How do you find the courage? Put one foot in front of the other and just breathe. Keep this blog handy!! Your message just jumped out at me this morning. I am on day 41 of no contact. It is SO hard. I’ve was in the unavailable relationship for a year. You can do this. You are worth the short term pain. Blessings to you!!!
- tired_of_assanova on at 11:37 pm
  
  Going NCR is extremely painful, but also extremely effective. I say this as someone who spent 9 – months in depression / pain / going crazy before making a full recovery. It is not just him letting you down, you’re also letting yourself down because you’re still there. All you need to do is make it known that ‘this situation doesn’t work anymore, and we have to stop seeing eachother. Please don’t contact me because I’m not going to contact you’. And then CUT.
  
  Go see a psychologist asap, preferably beforehand to prepare yourself as much as possible. And then block, it is very hard and is purgatory but if you do it, the rewards are enormous.
- cc on at 1:47 pm
  
  scarlet-
  what’s been hitting me as i read this post and all the comments is how, even though this kind of treatment makes us unhappy, we instinctively do not even bother to begin to dare to imagine, to believe, that we are in a position to REQUIRE that we be treated better. and the people who walk away, even though walking away hurts and they are in for a long recovery period, are those who know in their bones that they deserve better.
  
  you find the courage by asking three questions: 1- what treatment of me do i consider appropriate? 2- is he treating me according to the answer to question 1? 3- if not, will i value myself enough to start treating MYSELF appropriately so i can tell him to shove off?
  
  look. the simple fact is that we all need to be prepared to be happily, blissfully alone, and to complete ourselves, BY ourselves, while we look for a partner. to instead accept sh*tty treatment is to deny the reality of our own worth and to delay our own growth.
  
  i know you don’t want to be alone. and i know growth hurts. but – TRUST me – you’re better off kicking him and learning how to make yourself happy so you can find a partner who is truly worthy of you. otherwise, you will keep doing this same thing over and over and over and over and……
  
  and i won’t lie. when you walk away from him it. will. HURT. but losing him does not matter. he’s an ass and a liability. if you commit to it, to yourSELF, it is you who will be gained.
  
  honest. i promise.
  - AHM on at 3:49 pm
    
    Get pissed!! Look at every dirty, shady thing he has don, said to you, treated you. Put it on paper – write everything down and read it everyday.
    
    Of course you’re going to have bad days – but get your power back girl!! Quit giving it away!! Meuh!!
grace on at 11:15 am
I would go further and say there’s no point being with someone who blows hot. Full Stop.
A man who barely knows you (and he can not know you even if you’ve had sex) shouldn’t be showering you with compliments, talking up the future, bombarding you with phone calls, texts, emails or IM’s, pushing for sex or any physical affection, being charming, pushing your boundaries, trying to persuade you away from prior appointments, friends, hobbies, work, even nights in on your own. He is getting a kick out of seducing you. He isn’t in love with you. He isn’t head over heels. He may think he is. You may think he is. He’s not. You don’t know each other.
And when a man does know you better, he shouldnt be doing those things either. It should be mutual
It was only after he declared he liked me and got a positive response that the man I’m seeing has started complimenting me (low key). It feels different to compliments I’ve had from other men. I don’t feel that he’s trying to flatter me or get something out of me (sex, more attention, compliments in return); he wants to show he appreciates me and he wants to reassure me when I’m facing something challenging.
Be careful of what you value and of what makes you think “this could be it!”. Time and again I’ve read comments here which start out with “He was so charming. He pursued me. He wouldn’t take no for an answer.” And I think – here we go again …
I don’t see blowing hot as a green flag. To me it is RED.
- Stephanie on at 3:15 pm
  
  Grace – I agree, blowing hot in the very early stages of dating is a red flag to me now. I think a man that pushes for intimacy by future faking and showering you with compliments all the time has an ulterior motive. I experienced this and saw it as he thought I was “the one” for him because he couldn’t possibly be that open and affectionate with someone he wasn’t interested in. He behaved as though he was head over heels. He wasn’t.
- Snowboard on at 6:55 pm
  
  @Grace-
  
  “I would go further and say there’s no point being with someone who blows hot. Full stop.”
  
  I’ve heard you say this before, and I think it’s a very interesting idea – that we should back out at the initial “hot” stage, rather than waiting until the first painful “cold” stage. My AC#1 never blew hot in that devoted Win-You-Over Way. He was just constantly BOTH hot and cold: e.g.., he would make me lots of mixed CDs, invite me to spend lots of time with his family, hook up with me, etc. while simultaneously letting me know he didn’t want a relationship; he came back from eight months abroad with four very nice gifts for me, only to tell me he was then leaving w/friends for two weeks and wasn’t going to be able to spend time with me; one day he would want to hook up, the next he wouldn’t want to talk to me, etc., etc. This ridiculous situation went on for seven years.
  
  As a result, when I moved to another country, and met AC#2 and he blew incredibly hot for about five seconds, I was completely swept off my feet, because no one had ever treated me with undiminished passion like that. I remember thinking, “Wow, I always knew I could be fully loved like this; why did I waste so much time with [AC#1]?” Haha. Then I got to experience the other side of that coin – brutal undiminished coldness. [AC#1] was never brutally cold to me like that.
  
  Maybe what we should be looking for is a more consistent “warm” blowing, haha. Yes, he should be kind, and “courting” you by trying to win you over, but he should also be taking it slowly, at a measured pace, allowing you to both genuinely get to know each other and see if it’s a real fit that might last. That is what my non-EU boyfriend from last year did, and it ended up being a very nice relationship until OCD interfered.
- Natasha on at 7:04 pm
  
  Totally agree Grace! I have a bit of a crush on a man that travels in the same professional circle that I do. Last night I went to an industry co*cktail event and ran into him. He said, “It’s so nice to see you again. You look lovely, by the way. Would you like to get together for dinner this week?” This contrasts sharply with when I met every assclown I ever went out with, who were like, “YOU’RE THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WOMAN ON EARTH! PERFECT! MARRY ME! By the way, would you like to go back to my place?” Couldn’t agree more with the old adage, “Slow and steady wins the race.”
- Lilia on at 3:20 am
  
  Grace,
  I´m coming to the same conclusion, thank you for spelling it out so clearly! I used to think those guys who take things slow were just boring, and how come they don´t want to get involved with me asap, have passionate sex, marry me? So I went for the ones blowing hot, thinking that was what true love must be all about.
  Now I see that was childish.
  And if I´m really honest I have to admit that a man trying to sweep me off my feet overwhelms me, getting to know someone at a reasonable pace feels much better.
- Mymble on at 10:14 am
  
  Grace,
  I wanted to join the chorus of yeses!
  The MM showered me with attention, at the beginning, I had never in my life experienced that level of intense interest, far less from someone who was so attractive. Even at the time I experienced a feeling of unease – I knew I’m not all that, and he doesn’t really know me. What will happen when he does get to know me? If his feelings are so strong now, where is there to go but down? What I only dimly perceived was that he didn’t really have any (or very few) feelings for me at all. He was in some wierd fantasy on his own. The more “real” I got, the more he retreated. The “blowing cold” was emotionally devastating, I have not recovered and don’t know if I ever will. I’d never experienced anything like it in my life, all my prior relationships proceeded at a normal pace. I had had it happen to me (on two occasions) in the past that i had been out with men that I liked very much but who had finished with me, but they were not EU or AC s and although upset and disappointed I’d always mourned and bounced back reasonably quickly.
Stephanie on at 11:19 am

I’ve been following BR for about 10 months now and this is one of those posts that really hit home to me because I experienced all of it. Last year around this time I met someone (via online dating) who totally swept me off my feet very quickly, he was successful, handsome and very charming. To cut a long story short after 2 fun and intense months of dating he started pulling back, the texts became less he stopped calling and I felt like I was chasing him. I asked him if there was a problem and he said “I haven’t got any problem with you I just want to spend time with my family, they’ve come over from the USA and I don’t get to see them very much”. This didn’t feel right to me but I carried on trying to get his attention. To end it, he agreed to take me to meet some of his friends, on the day he stood me up by sending me a text to say he had a family problem and had to go to his sisters house. I never heard from him again. Until 4-5 months later he sent a text saying “how’s you” then proceeded to delete my profile on the dating site.

My mind went into overdrive and I just couldn’t stop thinking what did I do? Am I sexy enough? Is it because I don’t have 6 figure salary? Was I too quiet? this went on for months until I sank into depression. I struggled to get out of bed to go to work and would sleep until midday during the weekend. Constantly checking his Facebook page and his family’s, (which confirmed that he wasn’t spending time with them at all). Sad but true. All because some he cowardly dumped me and I didn’t know why. In all my years of dating and relationships (I’m 37) I’ve never experienced this. I’ve always been able to suss someone out and move on. Why not this time? Over time I started feeling better and saw the red flags that I missed from the first day I met him and this whole situation became my epiphany.

I went to one of Natalie’s workshops earlier this year and told my story slightly more in-depth and she made me see the funny side to it all and highlighted what an AC he really is. Finally I’m not affected by it any more and its changed me and the way I think about dating. I’ve put myself out there more and made new friends who I am going on holiday with next month.

Sometimes it takes a really awful experience with these guys to make you learn some valuable lessons. 🙂
Lizzy on at 11:29 am

A classic post! It was searching ‘why do men blow hot and cold?’ that lead me to BR two years ago after my second brush with this type of behaviour. My ex-AC was a master of hot and cold/highs and lows, but I blamed myself for his inconsistency for 10+ years, betting on his potential, being future faked and basically put through the wringer. I was a wreck by the end of it. Long story short, I then encountered a MM who pursued me hotly but then started giving me the old hot-and-cold treatment (ie saying ‘I love you’ one day, then tumbleweed for a week). ‘Hang on, this is familiar,’ I thought to myself… this was my epiphany! I recognised a distinct pattern. The MM was my ‘one last ass’ sent to me by the universe, and unwittingly did me a huge favour, as because of him I found BR and started changing my life. Blowing hot and cold is a tried-and-tested technique used by manipulative ACs, and as Natalie says, a massive red flag. Ladies, if someone does this to you, run like the wind!
rakeil on at 1:47 pm

I just recently discovered your blog and must say I feel like you are speaking directly to me. I broke it off back in May with I guy I had been seeing for few a months. He was doing the EXACT same thing. It was incredibly hot in the beginning then it grew cold. I started hearing less and less from him. He was always so busy or some type of drama ensued why he claimed he didn’t contact me. I was always the one sending a text or calling him to see how his day went. Never once did he ever do that for me. I saw the signs and actually thought about breaking it off. Then I had a conversation with my best friend who tried to justify her behavior based on her experience with her husband. Never really taking into consideration that he just wasn’t available. Against my better judgment it continued on with more hot and cold. It was long distance relationship so phone contact was all we had. I would often come visit because he would complain that he missed me. He was always agitated whenever I had to leave. Saying he cared about me more than I cared about him.

A year before I had met him I was growing tired of my job situation and decided to start look for jobs up north in my home town. That’s how we actually met, I was visiting family and was introduced to him. It wasn’t until almost nine months into seeing him is when I finally got a promising job offer. I honestly didn’t move here for him but him being here was added bonus. Or so I thought. I got here in February and everything was good for like a month or so. The same hot and cold behavior started. I realized I started to see him less and less. I decided NC was best. I stopped calling, texting him and asking when he would have time to see me. There was no excuse he could make as to why we lived ten minutes away and I had only seen him ONCE since I got there. Little by little I really started to see him for who he was and not what I wanted him to be. Here I was just moved back to city I hadn’t lived in since elementary school. He knew I would be looking for my own apartment. He never once volunteered to help me find a place. He never called or checked up on me to see how my move was going. Here I was driving 900 miles across a few state lines with all my belongings. I had friends and family that checked on me periodically but the person that I cared about the most didn’t give a damn. It was finally starting to hit home and that long drive made things a lot clear.

About two months of NC he finally decides to grace me with a text message. I kinda figured he would because of his previous behavior. He hadn’t said anything different other than he’s been busy with work and called and text me but I never responded. In short blaming me for the disconnect. Same excuses I’ve heard in the past. However this time my feelings towards him were different. I didn’t go back with the expectation he changed I wanted to see if in fact he did. I wanted to see if he would slip right back into the same behavior. Sure enough he did, but unlike other times in past I wasn’t gonna just let it slide. He had a expiration date like everything else in my life. Started to realize he wasn’t all that special and was asshole to be exact. My 30th birthday was approaching in a matter of weeks. I knew he was gonna go sour on that day. Two days prior I reminded him that my birthday and if he’s serious about what he said he had better step up. Just like the past everyone but him showed me how important I was to them. He never called, texted or even showed up for my birthday. So I decided he didn’t deserve a face to face, so I sent him a long lengthy email. Telling him exactly how I felt about him and his treatment towards me. I told it was too late for excuses and apologies and that I never wanted him to contact me again. Its been three months and did was he does best left me alone.

As I read your blogs I realize I made the right decision because believe me I questioned myself thinking it was me when it wasn’t. Thanks for all the advice and look forward to more.
teachable on at 3:26 pm

I’m actually happy having gotten rid of the hot / cold blowers. Even the (very, very) subtle ones. The overt ones were easy. Noticably a problem = noticably flushed ages ago. The two subtle ones though (i.e my former bestie – whom the jury is still out on, as to be fair, we haven’t yet talked things through in person, which may end up happening with the outcome as yet undetermined, & my sister) were slowly sucking me dry. Perhaps partly because I’m physically challenged I just don’t have any spare energy for anything troublesome? I feel awful saying that but it’s true. It’s low maintenance or the highway here & I very much like it.
Sarah on at 6:39 pm

I wish I had of had access to this article a year and a half ago…because this completely describes my exes behaviour to a tee. At the time I attributed it to distance however in hindsight he offered a relationship to me shortly before moving away for work..how convenient! It wasn’t much of a relationship and I distinctly remember saying to my friends at the time “it feels like I don’t have a boyfriend”..I never really got asked how I was, for all he knew I could have had a sex change, he wasn’t at all interested in anything I was getting up to in his absence. Of course I was patiently waiting for him to change, hoping that the distance was the only reason for his coolness. Realistically, he’d probably lost interest and was too cowardly to commit to a decision regarding me.

Now this behaviour is a red marker for me. Especially if they aren’t contacting me. It’s such a big glaring sign that I never acknowledged before but the most obvious. Even with distance, there is no excuse for lack of contact.

All of these I am familiar with…feeling like a pest when it used to be that they pestered you, having to chase someone who was once ruthless in pursuit, being alone in your feelings, feeling guilty for reminding them of the promises they once made that they are now too BUSY to keep..I never actually had a name for this behaviour (hot and cold)..

Never again.
selfhelpgal on at 7:41 pm

Hi all
Another thing that I think is helpful is to “believe” someone when they tell who they are. I don’t mean the good stuff, but if somone is still really angry at their ex, or says they love you but they are scared, or breaks it off early because of their own fears, pay attention to that. That was my downfall. We have to be willing to listen to what we don’t want to hear. Someone who is ready, doesn’t break up several times. Someone who is ready doesn’t say “I don’t think this is a good time for a relationship.” Don’t try and keep somone where they don’t want to be, just because you feel the love, and believe they love you. I believed and still do, the last guy was a good one and loved me, and we were in touch every day (long distance relationship sort of) so he was not hot/cold in that way, we were in touch all the time. But he did do something really distrustful early on, and did break up early on, and i kept believing he did it for other reasons (fear and he was too in love with me and pulling away). I was the one who kept in going, asked him to reconsider pointing out all the good and we could make it work. BUT early on, he was flaky, unsure, after being very HOT HOT for me, loving, sweet, and he was the one to say I love you. he was the pursuer, until i fell for him. not all of the EUM are assclowns in my opinion, some simply are not ready, are too hurt, are damaged, and etc, just like a lot of us are. We have all been hurt – at some point by someone and they have pain and issues as we do. I have been with AC and wont do it again. I have also been with counstless unavailable men that were just that, unavailable and wounded but not idiots or mean….there is a difference. I just didnt want to believe, and to a degree, still don’t, that we went from hot to cold many times in a short time. Hugs to all, and we are in this together, learning and growing. I also have been an AC as a woman, and have learned a lot along the way….:-)
Colee on at 7:50 pm
Today my ex EUM contacted me, he said he missed me and I ignored it.He kept texting “hi” and stuff, and eventually I text back.I know I shouldn’t have, but part of me was curios.He was as horrible over text after three weeks of no contact as he was when we were together, and kept in contact.I told him to go away, and find somebody else he responded with “nah, thats too easy I like a challange”.I’m not perfect, in fact I am about as far from it as it is possible to get but I’ve never done anything to hurt him, or upset him.If anything I have gone out of my way to make sure he is happy, so even though I’m not perfect he hasn’t got any right to play games with me, or to deliberatley try and hurt me.I think anyone who can do that isn’t a nice person.He is 7 years older too, so he should know better.I think that last bit of longing has gone away.He wasn’t a good boyfriend, he mad me feel like I had to apologize for everything I did, if I made too much noise when he was hungover or if I brought him food and it wasn’t the type he liked.He was horrid to me then, and he will keep being horrid to me for aslong as I let him.I already give myself a rough time without him giving me one too.I don’t want him, not anymore.I made the right decision to cut contact and him trying to get back in touch has just proved that to me x
See Also
What To Do When Your Girlfriend Is Distant and Cold 5 Reasons Your Ex Is Hot And Cold And How To Deal With It - Max Jancar Your ex girlfriend is being hot and cold? 10 ways to respond (practical guide)
- Learner on at 9:22 pm
  
  Colee
  It’s good that the little bit of contact via text has strengthened your resolve to stay NC. You deserve better than someone who is that horrid to you. Strength to you x
- Colee on at 12:06 am
  
  Thankyou, I thought if he got back in contact it would make me miss him all over again, but actually it’s just made me despise him even more.It’s one thing to hurt me when we are together, it’s another thing to actively text me, which the sole intention of trying to make me want him again, or jealous. It’s this site that has made me better, everyone here is so lovely and supportive and what Natalie says just makes sense xx
Jessica on at 8:37 pm

I can relate to what women are saying about unavailable men, blowing hot and cold. My husband of 15 years, and father of my 3 children, was having an affair, living a double life, and I found out by accident. Getting back into the world of dating was a huge wake up call and education for me. My first relationship as my marriage was disintegrating, was the classic rebound relationship, passionate and intense for the first six months, then suddenly the guy started blowing hot and cold, eventually silent treatments, and disappearing for minor “infractions” such as me expressing a grievance. I kept trying to fix the relationship, believing I was causing his behavior! It drove me crazy and drained me of what little self-esteem I had left after my marriage ending. Looking back, I needed him to make me feel like he made me feel in the first six months, it was like he wasn’t giving me my “fix” of the love drug, and I hadn’t yet grieved or processed the loss of my marriage, so I was desperate for him to treat me like he did in the beginning. Finally, my self worth was just so low, I couldn’t take the pain of him constantly walking out and giving me the silent treatment, that I decided, “this is the last time”. I resolved not to make any contact with him, and did so for three months. It felt like going through withdrawals, but I stayed strong, and was starting to feel better, go out with girlfriends, date, was having fun, even gave myself a big Birthday party. Then I sent him a text asking him to return something of mine. He came over to my house and we started talking, then I let him into my life again, believing I was smarter and stronger this time. I took it slow, but eventually, he went back into the same pattern with me, only worse! I guess I needed another go around to really learn my life’s lesson. A year later, I started dating someone else and as soon as he started behaving ambivalently, I recognized this, red flag, I told him, I was going to date other people too. One night he stormed out of my house over something minor. I never made any contact with him again. I continued dating other guys I had been seeing, no big deal. Seven months later, and I am in love with a great guy, healthy relationship, and the “ambivalent guy” who walked out on me is still calling and texting asking me to be his friend! I just tell him, sorry, not interested!
Awakened on at 9:06 pm

@ Colee

I would have never replied back to him. How long were you guys no contact? Not that it matters. If you give these assclown’s an ounce of attention their Ego’s only feed on it. Whether they get back in touch or not nothing has or will ever change. I think that’s what we all need to write across our foreheads. Nothing has or will ever change. Make sticky notes; write it on your bathroom mirror if you have too. No matter how many days you’ve gone NC it doesn’t matter. They only get in touch for an EGO stroke and that’s it…. Nothing more.. Nothing less..
- Colee on at 12:10 am
  
  We had been in no contact for three weeks, or maybe four.It’s weird because today was the day that I had felt a tonne better, and then bam he text!. I know I shouldnt have text him back, but curiosity got the better of me.I didn’t expect him to change, but I assumed that if he did get back in contact he would be more tactful, and blow “hot” rather than blowing cold.Eventually when I ignored him he sent me a “nice” text saying that he hoped I’d been ok and that he had been thinking about me alot but I ignored it x
Learner on at 9:10 pm

Natalie and BR community,
I am so relieved to have broken contact with the exMM, who blew hot and cold but then became more consistently “hot” over the last two years of our relationsh*t (so I thought he was getting ready to commit to me, until I found he’d had an OOW all that time that he was “weaning himself off” as he apparently preferred my company).
I have been NC with him for almost 6 weeks now, and I was feeling really strong today. I had “unfriended” him on Facebook the day I knew of the OOW (with whom he said he had broken up), but I felt I should go in and just block him. I did a search for him, clicked on his account, and there on his public “wall” I saw some recent pictures of the OOW sitting on a tree stump! It’s the first time I have seen a clear picture of her. He has apparently taken up with her again. Which is fine – she can “have” him (more like share him with his wife/her *friend*) as far as I am concerned, but my response to her pictures took me off guard. My heart almost jumped out of my chest with palpitations, I became shaky, and I had to take an anti-anxiety pill to settle down. I thought I was doing so well yet my body reacted in this extreme way – almost a panic attack. I went ahead and blocked him on Facebook, but the thing is I have to see him in person soon for 5 workdays in a row (starting in a week from now) as our committee gets together for some intensive work sessions. I am preparing a 1.5 hour long presentation for next Tuesday, for which he will be in the audience. It has been difficult to prepare for it, as I am nervous of him being there. I have gone from my previous excitement to see him (pre-OOW knowledge) to feeling nauseated at the thought of seeing him. To make matters worse, he sent a group email to our committee praising another female colleague’s work (which he used to do about my work). Again, a pang of jealousy/anxiety. We usually sit together during these work sessions so people may wonder why we won’t be this time.

I have read the NCR book, and took in all the advice about going NC with a person at work. I am preparing to put all of those into place. I have been lucky so far, as I was off work the first half of July, he was off the second half, and we have not had a committee meeting since we went NC. Now I am dreading seeing him, and having trouble focusing on this project we are working on with the same team. Has anyone else been in a similar spot? I am still shaking inside despite the meds I took. Any additional advice would be *much* appreciated. Thanks.
- tired_of_assanova on at 11:49 pm
  
  https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/when-your-ex-returns-again-its-an-opportunity-to-do-right-by-you/
- runnergirl on at 12:19 am
  
  Hey Learner,
  First, congratulations on 6 weeks NC. Good for you girl. I didn’t have to work with the exMM as he got a new job right before we ended things. Thank god. It’s good you have read Natalie’s book and have the info about NC with a work colleague. I think I would feel jittery even after a year and a half if I had to work with him again. I think I would acknowledge the jittery feelings but focus on staying completely professional as Nat advises. And don’t sit with him. Who cares what people might think. Protect yourself.
  Regarding the FB snooping…well…it’s not a good idea as you’ve experienced. I had to learn the hard way too. I feel so sorry for the OOW sitting on a tree stump. I think I sat on the same stump. His praise of another female’s colleagues work? My immediate thought: Lining up his next OOW? Apparently a wife and a mistress is not enough for this guy? It sounds a bit like you may still have him on a pedestal. He’s a cheating cheater. Okay, so that’s the nice stuff. Here’s what I’m really thinking in the bubble above my head: What a perfect opportunity to totally, completely ice the dickhe*d! Perfect opportunity for you to run as cold as ice. 2 woman as well as a wife? Ditch the meds and prepare your presentation, and ICE him. Think of this as a golden opportunity.
  Sorry Natalie if I’m out of line. This guy triggers my anger buttons.
- Colee on at 12:37 am
  
  Hey, you know you said you had to see him at work ? now I know that sounds really scary but I think it might actually be good for you.I was with someone for a year and he cheated on me, and I was mega upset about it (he was probably more of an assclown than an EUM) but I had to see him everyday for college, even though it was awful and my tummy dropped everytime I saw him, I actually think it made me move on quicker, maybe because I saw him so often that I became de-sensetized to him, and I got use to not speaking to him although sometimes I realy really wanted to.If I felt the urge to talk to him, I would remeber the cheating, and get really angry about it.I don’t really know how to explain but you know how surgeons don’t get squeamish when they see blood and gutys because they are use to it? like that.My EUM lives far away, so if I saw him it would really shake me, I bet if I saw him everyday I would get over him quicker.
  
  I think it’s normal to feel a bit jealous , but jealousy is just fear of losing someone and not being good enough.You shouldn’t fear losing him, because you don’t want him, or you won’t soon.And as for not being good enough, you seem very nice to me and he doesn’t sound even a little bit nice so you are already better than him in my eyes xx
- Fearless on at 12:40 am
  
  Learner
  
  No surprise to anyone else about the tree stump woman – it’s only shocking to you, sadly. These guys are so predictable. You need to build yourself up and knock him off the pedestal that has you feeling he is in a position to be looking down at you. Big yourself up – picture the woman you want to be at this presentation; see it and you’ll be it. He’s the wanker here. Not you. Don’t forget that (keep telling yourself, ‘you wanker!’ – worked for me!). Show him what “cold” looks like (indifference is better!). Stand tall, walk tall, speak up and smile – a lot. (pardon the bad language – but it works for me!)
- Lilly on at 12:05 pm
  
  Learner, I can relate to your anxiety. If I had to see the exMM I would also be reaching for the meds, but I think Runnergirl has a good point and this could be the perfect opportunity for you. As Fearless says knock the creep off the pedestal, concentrate on what a wonderful, strong, capable woman you are and know that you deserve so much more. Even if you don’t feel it be cool, calm and collected. Few things are as devastating as indifference (and he won’t be expecting it). It will build your reserves and you will come out stronger. I’m sending you lots of support and will be thinking of you going into week 7 of NC. Keep strong and hugs to you.
Awakened on at 9:22 pm
@selfhelpgal so true. If someone tells you who they are believe them. Red flags and clues always present themselves in BOLD PRINT in the beginning. We just fell to recognize them. Being angry about an ex; is definitely a sign. I will be hitting the 2 months mark of NC next week and I think to myself and reading everyone else’s comments; I know that 2 months is not very long although it seems like a while. I am fresh into my stage of NC which is still a critical point but I can say that I am at a much better place than I was 30 days ago. I’ve read about 3 or 4 comments on this posting where someone else’s EUM or assclown reached out after 2 months . What is it about 2 months that makes them reach out when it was their choice to dissapear and clearly nothing has changed in 2 months? Thoughts?
- selfhelpgal on at 10:32 pm
  @awakened, proud of you, give yourself a hug and pat on the back. 2 months is a long time, celebrate the victories…..we never know if someone will call or try and inch back in, or when. I fear that too….but I am trying to get me healthy and not worry as much about the what ifs. Which is foreign to me, but i am learning and better today than I was a month ago, a year ago. Stay strong, and awesome abt being strong in spite of your pain, NC is very hard, very. hugs
  - runnergirl on at 1:43 am
    Awakened and selfhelpgal, congratulations with your NC. Stay strong ladies. I’m totally with you regarding how insightful and brilliant Natalie’s posts are as well as the comments. I’m not new to the theraspeak community either. However, I’ve found Natalie’s books, BR, and the BR community to be the best therapy. Oh gracious, there is a plethora of Nat posts and comments regarding why these guys get back in touch when nothing has changed. It runs the gamete from needing to make sure you are still an option, reinforcing their fragile egos, making sure they are still da bomb, a shoulder to lean on, maybe a shag, the list is endless. It’s always about them. And it’s not just after two months. The only thing we can do is bolt, seal, and firmly lock the door, mend the windows, and NEVER respond. Mine was, as Nat described, like a co*ckroach after a nuclear bomb. He resorted to snail mail twice even after a year. These guys have unfolded and unfolded and unfolded some more. At some point, it becomes ridiculous (not to mention humiliating) to keep thinking that fantasy knight (who existed only in my imagination) will suddenly appear. Natalie’s words are so true: ” It takes a thoughtless and/or rather self-involved individual to actually think that not only can they do this, but that they can essentially pull the same con on you numerous times without being noticed.” They can only pull the same con if you let them. Don’t let them. Stay strong. Stay NC. This is coming from someone who was humiliated by allowing the con, kept the door ajar, and kept running out to play in traffic. He never changed. I did though.
    - selfhelpgal on at 1:53 pm
      
      @runnergirl
      thanks for the post, so true. I have learned so much here-on this blog, from Natalie. It’s helpful to see it laid out here in these words.
- Fearless on at 12:16 am
  
  Awakened
  
  They are just checking up on their options. I’m sure their brains are firing something like this: “Hey option, still open? Great. Now you can f*ck off again!”
  - yoghurt on at 1:30 pm
    😀 😀 😀 Ace.
    That made me spit tea all over. V funny. And v accurate.
    - Fearless on at 6:25 pm
      
      Ha! Yoghurt – they may as well say that cos that’s what they mean!
- PurpleLily on at 2:40 am
  
  @Awakened
  
  Im at 2 months NC too (almost 2 months). It is a lot of work to get to 2 months, so dont underestimate all your hard efforts. You have work so much to get here and to feel better!
  
  I think I am in a better place too, but the past 2 weeks have been really tough. I dont know if the rejection is finally hitting home or something in me feels super lonely or (like someone commented in the past..) that I am coming back to myself and see all the good I have in me and I think “How dare you…”…but there have been LOTS of tears. Something just doesnt feel right, it doesnt feel happy.
  
  Like selfhelpgal, I am going to just focus on getting healthy. And not thinking about the what ifs. I know that my exEUM will never contact me because he has an entire online world of women who he can chat to. Here is a hug to everyone on NC, we can do it. They dont deserve any bit of our brain space, just got to keep strong.
  - selfhelpgal on at 1:57 pm
    
    @purple lily
    
    Amen, I feel the same way, and also going through a hard time, mine is a recent break up and I have had a hard time with it. Love, anger, compassion, HOW DARE HE, I miss him, what a jerk, etc. I feel lots of things, and heartbreak. It’s the sitting with the pain, lonliness, our thoughts that is so hard. But I know each of us has the strength and internal drive to heal and do better for ourselves. We are worth it…..HUGS to you and sorry you are having a hard time…..
    - Lilly on at 9:46 am
      PurpleLily & selfhelpgal, you have both described what I’m also experiencing right now. I’ve been NC for 7 weeks (tomorrow), and for the most part I’ve been feeling fairly strong, but today for some unknown reason I’ve hit a low. As Purplelilly says I think the rejection may finally be hitting home and today has been a day of tears. Knowing that others are experiencing the same thing, but staying strong is encouraging, but I’m struggling to keep it together. I just want to feel ok again.
      - Lilly on at 9:50 am
        oops, meant to say 6 weeks NC tomorrow. I wish it was 7 or even better 7 months, but then I’m wishing my life away.
        PurpleLily on at 12:58 pm
        
        Thank you @self help gal and Lilly. You are not alone. We are on the same damn boat.
        
        I am SO tired of the different emotions that come and go. And most of all, I hate the pain and hurt. This last weekend, I cracked and cried in bed for hours because I finally realised what it was that hasnt “felt right” – I feel so very, very lonely. Atleast now I know and can deal with it. But it doesnt make it easy. It makes it very real and scary.
        
        This morning something in my head went “You have SO much in your life, you owe it to yourself to be strong and positive.” And that is what I wish to share with both of you – these EUMs treated us poorly with no regard for the wonderful, loving women we are – but we have unbelievable strength and we will be ok. Just need to ride the waves when it feels like all is lost, we will get thru.
        
        Big hugs and please feel free to send a post to me if you wish to share or talk about something. Same boat-mates afterall!
        Learner on at 3:15 pm
        
        PurpleLily, Lilly and selfhelpgal
        
        I am writing to you from the same first-two-months-NC lifeboat heading AWAY from the sinking EUM-hot-and-cold relationsh*t ship. It is *good* that we are angry at these guys, whom we agree have not seen our worth, and who have treated us poorly despite our inherent value as wonderful women. We let them do this in the past, we are now moving away from that sinking ship and changing our course. It is damn hard, yes, I feel that too! It is difficult to go through the up and down feelings, but I am hopeful that the good feelings will outnumber the bad ones soon. Let’s cry when we need to cry, and feel the happiness when we can. I don’t know about any of you, but these days when I feel happy, I feel *very* happy since the lead weight has been discarded. Yes, PurpleLily, we WILL get through!
        
        Learner on at 3:17 pm
        
        oops, sorry, I meant to include awakened in there too. Hope I didn’t miss others? Trying to get used to the format of this blog and don’t always get it right. Sorry!
Learner on at 9:26 pm
oops, sorry, the presentation is a *week* from next Tuesday…but I am STILL very nervous!
- grace on at 12:00 am
  
  learner
  I’ll pass on what the man said to me recently when I had a wobble, “You are brave and competent. Whatever you put your mind to, you can do”.
  Put your mind to giving a solid presentation and not caring about what other people think of where you sit. They won’t notice. And if they are so observant that they DO notice then – newsflash – they knew you were having an affair and won’t be that surprised that it’s over. What do we k now about affairs? That they are time limited. The time limit is up.
  Get on and live your life.
- Teddie on at 9:25 am
  
  Learner,
  
  I’ve found a great way of managing my focus and emotional states: self-hypnosis. It’s not difficult and the benefits are huge. Find a good self-hypnosis course and download it. Way better to put your energy into acquiring a new skill rather than on PhD-ing on the guy (Nat’s term) and stalking him on FB.
Awakened on at 9:30 pm
@Colee and then him telling you that’s a challenge sounds like he’s some type of physcopath or something. Crazy….
- Colee on at 12:25 am
  
  He is very, very unstable from what I can tell.He can contradict himself 3 times in the same sentence.He has said a lot of stuff that was hurtful and stuff that made me take a step back. .
  He said ” I am being harsh to you because you are too naive and innoncent, I will be a learning curve so you wil learn to toughen up”
  “I don’t think you will ever get over me”
  “I know exactly what I’m doing, I don’t want a girlfriend right now but when I do I will probably want it to be you, so I am doing this to make sure you don’t move on in that time”
  and a boy from school posted on my wall, saying he’d saw me shopping earlier in the day and I looked upset was I okay, the EUM sent me a text saying “delete me off your facebook, since you are letting other boys post on your wall” so I did, then I get a text a few hours later saying ” I can’t believe you’ve deleted me off facebook” even though he asked me too. . .
  He phoned me at four o’clock in the morning to make sure I didn’t have another boyfriend( even though we had broken up), then he got suspicious because I had anwsered the phone so early and why would I be up if someone wasnt in my room? . . um, because my phone had rang very loudly and woke me up, he then went on to confess that the night he phoned me to check I didn’t have another boyfriend, he had kissed a girl in a night club.
  and the worst was when he hadn’t started blowing hot and cold, we talked about our childhood and I told him about my mums abusive boyfriend and my eating disroder, he then said ” wow, I thought you seemed damaged”.
  
  The strange this is, when he is drunk he is nice and it seems like he actually says some truthful stuff when he’s drunk, he’s said “I hope you find someone who treats you better than I have” “I never give you any compliments because I’m worried you will think you can do better and find someone else” .If it wasn’t this site and all the lovely people on it, I would probably still be trying to impress him xx
  - Colee on at 2:19 am
    also, I should clarify that I’m not in school now, I’m 18, I’m at college.I meant that I hadn’t seen this boy for a long time, he was in a few of my classes at school x
    - Learner on at 3:23 pm
      
      Colee
      Yes, he does sound unstable, and mean! He doesnt just run hot and cold, he messes with your brain. So glad you are getting yourself away from him. I hope you find someone who treats you better than he has, too!
Poppy on at 11:14 pm

This was me for just over two years. Every single thing in this article I could have written. At the time I had no idea, but now, wow, there is no way in the world I would put up with that again! Three months since I broke it off and initiated NC. Thankfully, he’s left me alone. It’s harder to move on from a “relationship” like this funnily enough, but I AM moving on, and that’s the most important. Thanks, Natalie, again, for a great article.
valleyforgelady on at 11:15 pm

To all of you who are going through the drama of getting over an addiction to a bad man there is hope at the end of the recovery rainbow!!!! I am totally embarassed at all the Bull sh*t drama I put myself through for these bad men!

I found the wedding pictures of the Ass Clown and his new wife that he left me for. I am so relieved. I also saw pictures of them 6 months after the weddding….and they both looked “rode hard and put away wet!” Both had gained a lot of weight and looked wretched. They looked “STUCK”.

I maybe occasionally lonely, but never stuck! Earlier I posted about wondering about meeting someone. My daughter came home for a quick visit and took some new photos for my dating .profiles. I have lots of attention…most of it not what I want….but I have choices, faith, friends, and most important…..self respect that will never compromised.

Natalie is the role model for recovery. And to her credit, she has not forgotten her hard learned lessons. She gives back. I try to do this in my daily life. God bless you all! For fun and inspiration….I have a wonderful home work assigment for all of you …….google…….Tyler Perry and catch his entertaining message about love and redemption(see the YouTubeVideos!) ….and not taking any crap…..and not ever giving up on yourself. Hit Wikipedia on Tyler Perry’s life and you will be amazed at what he overcame to be the true Star that he is today. I want a full report!

‘
FinallyDidIt on at 11:59 pm

When you break no contact with these ass blowers you send the message that “yes, I am still into you” and then you expect them to step up to the plate because, you think, “well, they contacted me – they must still want me”. Wrong. These losers only blow hot when you turn cold. It is quite a roller coaster ride and the ticket price is way too high. I know, I took that ride a number of times. Stay NC and give them what they earned and certainly deserve – nothing!
lightbulbmoment on at 12:26 am

Thank God I found this website…I have dated several men who come on super strong claiming I am a “rare jewel”, a “rare catch”, I remind them of a certain move star, “thank God I met you because I was just about ready to give up”..bla,bla,bla. This last guy I dated for 6 weeks poured it on and then went cold like I grew another head…its downright creepy how they flip the switch. Why isnt there a website where we can put men on some kind of national DO NOT DATE list. Why are we able to leave feedback on an effin toaster we purchase but cant leave feedback on these dating sites? These men are borderline sociopaths at worst and a waste of our time at best. I have now 5 men I can put on the national DO NOT DATE list. Hey,if they knew they could potentially be on the list,some of them might think twice about there shady games.
madame butterfly on at 12:33 am

Yes everything in this posting is exactly a mirror of the relationshop i was in for 3 long years with what a now know is a mentally disturbed narcissist/sociopath/psychopath. He came on strong to me initially in fact his exact words were ‘i am going to build my life around you’, to which i replied having just met he did not know me, but he insisted he was really interested in me, and for the long haul. True to his word he showered me with gifts almost every occasion we met and i told him i did not need to be made that special. As time went on i found he could be cold towards my friends who commented on that fact, and also to my family members. Then he started to arrange evenings out (without asking me if i was doing anything) on the evenings i was committed to being with friends. He surreptitiously wheedled me away from friends anyway one way or another and i never noticed because i was blindsided with all the attention and presents he was ‘wooing’ me with. He was always saying i did not trust him when in fact i did, i had never noticed anything untoward as to why i should not trust him.

Then came the day after no argument and a happy day spent together, he disappeared on me for 10 days and ignored my txts in trying to reach him. I had never had anyone disappear like that before and i thought he may be ill. Eventually he surfaced once more and breezed back into my life as if nothing had happened and with no explanation as to why he disappeared or what he had been doing! We became as before, the presents returned again until one day he calmly stood in front of me and said ‘ i dont want this or you anymore’ which threw me completely. I asked if he was joking and thats when the mask slipped completely and he became colder and colder as i tried to ask him to explain his statement and question him as to why he felt that way. Eventually he left me and i found out he had been cheating behind my back quite by chance. I understand that is what Narcissists always do. So i hit the roof and walked away. It has been 2 years since i decided to go NC and i am getting better with a few hiccups. I am not getting better though insofar as i wonder why there are such people around that do this to another human probably for some sick kick they can get out of it. But i am so glad we are not together anymore. He can have his ‘friends’ (he offered me the friend card – i refused) but i do not think he is happy, nor do i ever want to see him again.

NC does work and it is the only way to treat these sad, mentally disturbed people.
Jeanne on at 1:52 am

This website has been a lifeline for me, thank you Nat. All the commenters really help too.

Short story: an AC swept me off my feet, then dropped me on my head.

Long story: I thought I met the man of my dreams. He chased me, even flat out telling me that I was a challenge to him. I am a very independent woman, living happily alone and was not looking for love. I couldn’t believe this fantastic man fell into my life. He said all the right things, did all the right things, and it was he who initiated the relationship talk. He asked me to be his girlfriend. He pressured me to meet my family. He talked a lot about me meeting his family (out of state). He talked about vacations we would take together (Future Faking). He talked about moving closer together (we live about one hour apart). This all within two months.

And then with no warning, he pulled a disappearing act. He broke a date with me at the last minute. I was not happy and let him know it. Flush. I thought that would be the end of it. But about a week later he called me. I did not answer. Then he called again a few days later, and this time I figured I would hear what he had to say. He gave me a lame apology, but of course since I was focusing on all of the good times I accepted it. Everyone deserves a second chance, right?

Well you can guess what happened, he cancelled on me again. A “family emergency” was his excuse. I don’t buy it. I don’t think I’ve heard the last from him. I’m guessing he wants me to be his “Fallback Girl”, and that aint happening. I’m only four days NC, but I’m done with this AC.
Intotouch on at 3:15 am

Hello Natalie. Thank you for another wonderful post! I read these to help me to stay on the straight and narrow. You always help to keep me clear headed. You remind me of how bad things can get with an EUM and the hot and cold left me living in constant fear with the last long term disaster. The stress of that made me ill. This emotional rollercoaster was literally bad for my health. It was my body that decided I had to leave as much as my mind. Insomnia, IBS, shaking with fear when an angry text appeared. Madness.

Do you have any advice for someone like me who has been steering clear of commitment phobes for four years now but who is tired, feeling pessimistic and desperate? I’m sorely tempted to enter back into a dodgy “relationship” right now. Being single and sticking to principles has also meant being single and celibate for a really long time now and my pride doesn’t seem as important now as sex or being held again. I want a real relationship with a decent man but I also want sex. I’m really tired of waiting. How do people go years and years looking for the right man and not giving in to temptation? How do I do that? If I could find my sex drive and have it removed I would.
- Mymble on at 7:41 pm
  
  Intotouch,
  I know what you mean, I sometimes feel like that too.
  But it was feeling like that that ultimately lead to becoming involved with the MM. The pain that caused me was infinitely worse than how I had felt before. I have been thinking about having a massage (for stress and depression that I have too) and I have heard others suggesting a vibrator, though personally this isn’t for me.
  Unfortunately I know that I cannot properly separate out the emotional from the physical which means 1. If I have sex with them I will likely become attached, to a greater or lesser extent and 2. If I don’t feel attached, I don’t really want to be touched by them. 🙁
  I would suggest doing something nice for your physical self, a hot bath, a massage, getting your hair done, have a cuddle with your kids, mum, yoga, get your hair done. For me I think the wanting sex isn’t just specifically about sex but also about feeling cherished and valued as a physical being and that is something you can to an extent do for yourself.
Scarlet on at 5:24 am
Well, I have finally walked away. He let me down yet again after making promises, telling me how much he loved me and wanted to be with me. He didn’t turn up. The truth is I believe he has a drug problem. Well i know he has a drug problem but I honestly believed he was clean. I don’t think he is now.
I have told his mum that I believe he’s back on drugs and if he’s not, well he’s just a liar. The reason I told her is that he now knows the gig is up. The lies have been uncovered. If I had told him, he would have somehow lied more and believe it or not, I would have ended up falling for it. This way, I don’t have to wait for the inevitable contact with more lies. He knows I know so there’s no more lies to tell.
I have to look after me now and stay away. It is so so hard and I am so so scared of the pain that I know is coming this week. The hope is now gone and i am just left with pain. Somebody, please help me to stay strong.
- Rave on at 11:03 pm
  
  Scarlet,
  You must live up to your pseudonym here and live in vibrant colors.
  
  When my dad had an Alzeimer-type disease and I had to take care of him shortly, a doctor who came in an emergency signed up papers so my dad could be taken to the hospital, so a professional could take care of him. He said, very simply: You are not a nurse, and it’s not your job to take care of your dad. You just can’t because you are not a trained professional.
  
  This applies to people who are in relationships with people who are addicted to alcohol, drugs, etc…you can’t deal with those people because you are not a trained professional.
  
  These people will drive you CRAZY. You can’t have a healthy relationship with an unhealthy person, not matter how wonderful you think they are, based on times when they behaved like your dream man/woman. Their love is the drug, gambling, addiction, not wonderful you.
  
  The sooner you get away from them, the better it is for you and your loved ones.
  
  I hope you stay strong and realise that this man, as part of a fantasy in your head, is wonderful, but in reality, is detrimental to your mental and possibly physical health. I wish you strength!
  - blueberry girl on at 5:16 pm
    
    Rave, you are so correct. I’m currently NC six weeks from an alcoholic who lied, manipulated and disrespected me – my self-esteem and respect was in tatters. I allowed this, unfortunately.
    
    The last time I saw his drunk ass (he was drunk most of the times I saw him) he passionately kissed and hugged me and then proceeded to reveal later that evening that he’s been hooking up with two kids(!), one an alcoholic, another recently divorced with bi-polar disorder. Since he’s nearly 40, preying on these young, unhealthy girls, is just “creepy” (my therapist’s words). I won’t elaborate on the rest of his offences but, suffice to say, this was the final straw convincing me to Run. Like. Hell.
    I told him I didn’t need this crap and he hasn’t contacted me since. Funny, huh? When they know they can no longer control, use or abuse you, you’re history.
    Scarlet, Plz ask yourself what value this man adds to your life. Does he treat you with kindness, dignity and repect? Do you feel good, cared for and positive when you’re with him? I think not.
    You WILL feel better with NC, trust me, by putting distance between you and his dysfunction. I finally see him for the destructive, unhealthy person he is and understand he is no good for me. You will, too.
    . Focus your energies on you and “bigging yourself up” (a Natism). You can’t change or help him. Reading Natalie’s and the wise BR ladies’ posts have truly been my saving grace. Be strong!
Scarlet on at 5:27 am
I just saw your answer to my intial post Sarah and I thank you so much for your support. Please stay with me in this. I feel that my life is not worth living at the minute. Just so sad and can’t think of anything to look forward to.
- cc on at 2:02 pm
  
  scarlet-
  hang on a sec. look at what you just wrote:
  
  “can’t think of anything to look forward to” – so….you discovered that your hot and cold AC is a drug addict who is still beholden to his mom? so he’s a loser 17 ways to sunday? ….and yet you can’t think of anything to look forward to?
  
  honey. take a step back. i know you’re sad, but you have EVERYTHING to look forward to. the simplest things …. brushing your teeth in the morning, eating breakfast, sitting on a bench and breathing in and out and feeling the air around you, hell, doing your taxes, are ALL better than the least little interaction with him. and those are merely the tiny things.
  
  you don’t need a druggie loser in your life. i know, right now you can’t see this, but you just need some time and you will. right now you feel all carved up, all off balance, and you can’t imagine feeling any other way – believe me, this WILL pass.
  
  hang in there. believe you deserve better, first from yourself. it will get better, truly.
  - Allison on at 3:05 pm
    
    Scarlett,
    
    CC’s point is spot on!
    
    I would also ask yourself what you get from this man, and to question what you will be missing? Does he treat you with with respect and care? Can you trust him? Does he make you happy? Does he consider your needs? I’m assuming the answer will be no, to all of these questions.
    
    What is he adding to your life?
    - HS on at 10:09 pm
      
      @Allison what a great comment! WE definitely need to ask ourselves these questions, and “face” the truth! Our ACs gave us grief and nothing else really! What we missing them for? More pain and disappointments!
      
      @Scarlet, I missed my AC last week but thanks to the girls here, they kept encouraging me and posts from Natalie made me stronger, please hold on, CC gave you brilliant advice as well. Hugs.
    - blueberry girl on at 5:30 pm
      
      Allison, Just read your post. I was asking her similar questions!
      
      Scarlet, When I think about missing him, I’m thinking of the potential for a relationship that I mistakenly thought we had together, of what he could be if he wasn’t an alcoholic…not the reality of what we had (a non-relationship that he controlled) and who he was (an alcoholic not even close to seeking recovery).
      But I don’t miss his drunken rudeness, the ambiguity, the hot and cold rinses, the never knowing when I would see him again, the extreme highs and lows…keep your focus on the reality of him and reject the illusions. That has helped me tremendously.
      Smile; you’re on your way to freedom from pain.
- selfhelpgal on at 4:14 pm
  
  @scarlet
  
  hang in there. I agree with cc. I know it seems like things won’t get better but in time it will. It always does. The initial part is the hardest. I am going through heartbreak too right now, been crying half the morning, it comes and goes. But the beautiful thing is, sometimes it goes. You know that you are going to have to get through this tough time, and you will be so much stronger for it. Do small things to keep yourself focused on you and not him. Talk to a good friend, get on a support group online and talk to others. That has helped me in the past. There is a great blog and book “Getting Past Your Breakup and Getting Past Your Past” . The best thing that I can do when I am heartbroken is sometimes go to sites just like this…and learn and hear from others. It helps me a little. Like I was really down and I saw your post, and i wanted to reach out. Helping others or focusing on things other than this ex is so helpful….doing things for you, small things. getting your favorite food or a simple walk…anything to break the cycle of constantly thinking about your past. You were with a very unstable person, it seems. if he is or was an addict, using drugs, you are on a bumpy ride, were in an unsafe and unhealthy place with him. Now you have a chance for you to heal and work toward what you want and need. Getting past your breakup is tough, seems impossible, but it is not. You desevre to be happy, have someone show up consistently for you, and be loved!!! *HUGS*
- Oldenoughtoknowbetter on at 9:31 pm
  
  Scarlet, I have been visiting this site for over two years now, and I first came because I was positively heartbroken over a relationship with a married man, an old college boyfriend who came back into my life 26 years later after my divorce. I had a year long affair with him and I ended up so depressed I could hardly get out of bed. I had never really been in love before, and I was deep into this one.
  
  Through religiously reading this blog (I love you Natalie!!), therapy, self help books, and allowing time to do its healing, I am a new person today. I am dating a man I met on match almost a year ago, I have changed jobs, moved to another part of town, and at 50 just started living my life and taking control. No man will ever again have that power over me that the hot and cold married son of a bitch did. The key is N/C, get help, and keep moving forward. If you help yourself, time will do the rest.
  
  I get a text about every 3 months from the MM now, he just keeps checking in to see if I am ready for another round of hell. And I want all of you ladies on here to know that today I just laugh and hit delete. Then go on about my day. I may think of him now and then, but as my perspective is so much different, I wonder what the heck I saw in him to begin with. The pain was not worth the pleasure, and trust me everyone, if you stay focused and true, you WILL HIT DELETE AND FEEL NOTHING!!! Oh man, that feels good! You will have lots to look forward to, you just have to untangle yourself from his sick web first…… Good luck to you and keep your eyes in front of you (not behind with him!) and read this site and the comments as often as you need to! XOXOXO
  - runnergirl on at 5:32 am
    
    Oldenough, thank you for checking in and providing proof that what Nat says works, if you do the work. Congratulations to you and the new guy. And hooray for our 50’s. Checking in to see if you are up for another round of hell sums up blowing hot perfectly. When I was caught up in the lather, rinse, repeat cycle, I thought it meant he had changed, seen the light, and realized what a wonderful thing we had. At some point, it is just too absurd, just another round of hell. The pain was so painful and so not worth the fleeting moment of pleasure. Untangling myself from the sticky, icky web has been difficult cos I’m stubborn but I’m finally untangled now. Kinda nice, kinda floating. Kinda enjoying being in charge of me. Natalie is so right, these guys aren’t that special, although they think they are, and I’m not that desperate, although I acted that way! Congratulations to you.
  - selfhelpgal on at 2:03 pm
    
    @oldenoughtoknowbetter
    
    Great post and inspirational. I can relate in ways :-). So glad you are in a good space and place, and awesome to hear how people grow and learn and expand!
    Enjoy your happiness and being away from/done with an AC! Glad you met someone worthy
    - Oldenoughtoknowbetter on at 2:52 pm
      
      Runnergirl, so glad to hear you have untangled y0urself from the web!! Congratulations! It is a long haul, but sometimes I am actually glad for where the relationship with the MM took me, as I might not have ever recognized that the EU was actually me! This is where the value of BR is…it is not within the man, it is within us, and once we start to fix us, we automatically detach from him. If he had not dragged me all the way to the bottom, it may never have been painful enough to me to work on finding out who I was and why I was so unhappy with men. BR gives us the knowledge, tools, and the strength to take the accountability and own it, and that is when we start really living our lives as we want them to be, not drifting along on some sexual high with people who are not worthy of us!
      
      Selfhelpgal, thanks for the nice comment! I still love to read Nat’s articles, they are just full of common sense for life and they always seem to hit on areas I am struggling with. As many of us know, she is most definitely a mind reader! And I like to comment once in a while so that other women who are still in that web know that there is hope to get out. I know when I see someone else achieve something, I can tell myself “if she did it, I can do it”. So I hope I do inspire some who are living in that hell, it is a very awful place to be and I want others to know I did make it out! They can too!
Alanis on at 5:33 am

Excellent article. Thank you
3 weeks of NC here after 3 years of nonsense with my assclown. I feel great and relieved, ready to look deep within myself and sort out what needs to be dealt with so that I never meet another one of those again; do I miss him? nope, not at all. He didn’t give anything good of himself, there’s nothing to miss.
My ex assclown clicked all the boxes mentioned in this article. Everything seems so clear now that I am in NC, I never met such a specimen before and boy what a roller coaster that was. I learnt a lot through this ordeal, especially to not ignore your guts (mine were screaming in the pit of my stomach all along) and to not try to save/understand/care for an EUM; actually better run as soon as the assclownery gets detected; he will suck your energy dry, you will lose your sense of self in the process while Mr assclown won’t have changed one bit , except for his ego getting bigger.
Good luck and hugs to all!
Magnolia on at 6:30 am

Well, last night I went back to my old apartment (which was spotless and smelled of the thorough clean-out it had undergone since I left) to collect the last of my things and one of my neighbors saw me moving things and went back to her place, changed her clothes and came out to help. My ex-roomie came home then, and saw us, and offered to help and did. Totally cheerful. As if we were best buddies. She came in for the goodbye hug when we were done. And I thought – *this* is in part why I didn’t wise up – the inconsistency! And then here is this post.

With guys, I guess the inconsistency was somewhat more noticeable as “off” to me because I had an idea of what love would and wouldn’t involve. With women, I in fact haven’t had a good template. Mind you, I haven’t exactly been consistent in loving myself.

It never occurred to me that the “hot and cold” pattern NML has described for years not only applied to my relationship with an AC, but to these two female friendships that I have been reevaluating this week. Both women are high achievers, both gave me little presents very early into our friendship (I don’t tend to give little gifts to people I barely know, but do like to give gifts to people that mean a lot to me), and both seemed attracted to me as a fellow “achiever” (which I found flattering). I felt that one woman was disappointed when I turned out not to be a triathlete-in-training, and that my roomie (who at first used to often call me ‘famous’) eventually got disillusioned that someone who had a public profile that she found impressive was actually pretty boring and insecure and not at all as ‘fabulous’ as her other super-women friends. I DID feel like an athletic wuss; I DID feel “boring in real life” so I tried to prove myself.

I didn’t even realize I was doing this. I didn’t recognize their behaviour as inconsistency, I thought they simply weren’t able to hide that I was a disappointment (all this happening kind of unconsciously; it’s not like I sat down consciously and said to myself, oh, they’re aloof because you’re secretly a loser and they have been confronted by that). And whenever the relationship returned to a place where they were signalling I was a “non-disappointment,” I really was only too happy to forget behaviours. Natalie, when you reminded me of the “I wonder why you weren’t invited” saga, I realized I had “forgotten” about it!

I must still be pretty invested in the super-woman identity if I hung on to these relationships that kept me in a cycle of validate/threaten that status.

Alright: off to go and just be and breathe. The house I’m subletting has a yard and a tree; I’m in a beach town and the weather is hot and sunny. There are cats to hang out with, a piano to play and CBC to listen to; mountains to gaze at in the distance; and pooooooooeeeeeemmmms to write.
- cc on at 2:25 pm
  
  CLICK!!!
  
  magnolia- it all just fell into place for me about you. do you see it?
  
  we all feel, particularly if we are high achievers, that we are frauds. this feeling stems from a narcissistic wound (from your father and my father and our father-enabling mothers) that tells us that 1) we can only be valued for our good points, which by the way are never good enough and 2) that our bad points are too awful to bear. both are UNTRUE.
  
  SO – these women, for their own reasons, wanted to be friends with you because they are climbers, hangers-on, takers, who sought to enhance their own standing by glomming onto what they believed they could glean from yours.
  
  …except you had the temerity to prove to be human. which you have EVERY right to be. and, in fact, are, as we all are. and which they, as glommers, as small-minded and -hearted, overly ambitious people, could not possibly tolerate and could never admit about themselves. so they made you feel they were disappointed in you, when, really, you should be disappointed in them for their unbelievably conditional fair weather friendship and their stony fakeness. because of your history, and this is true for every single one of us, you were a sitting duck for this. and you felt it was your fault. it wasn’t.
  
  the lessons? two:
  1- LOVE you. exactly how you are, ALL of you. you have no responsibility to be perfect, CERTAINLY not to satisfy someone else’s unbelievably using, selfish need. value and have compassion for your foibles, your “faults”, all the uniqueness about you. i know i preach a lot about this, but goddammit, its true. ….’sides, if you’re going to write poetry, you need to see these traits more clearly.
  2- kick these people from your life and oh. my. f*cking. god, start learning to choose better friends (which i know you are already doing). pick people who are REAL people, people you can admire for not only their accomplishment but also who they are as people, how they live their lives, how they express their humanity, how they treat others. people you can like for their real selves and who like you for your real self. you need real friends, ones who will become gold. start with being this kind of friend to yourself – in fact, again, you already have.
  
  healing a narcissistic wound is one of the hardest things any of us can do, and it takes forever. but you’re doing GREAT. rock on.
- Allison on at 3:23 pm
  
  Mag,
  
  Do you realize you are internalizing everyone’s actions? That is a lot of weight!
  
  This isn’t about you! People are not disrespectful, inconsistent and hurtful because of you, they are disrespectful, inconsistent and hurtful, as this is who they are. Please recognize this and extricate this drama from your life.
  
  Also. the woman from work who gossips, is someone to stay away from.
  - Magnolia on at 8:18 pm
    
    Thanks for the thoughts, cc and Alison.
    
    The weird thing is that I didn’t *perceive* the disrespect AS disrespect, you know? If I could have seen the disrespect, I might have been able to say “that’s not about me” at the time. But haven’t we all distanced ourselves from good people who try our patience? People whom we care about but who we need to have boundaries with? How can we tell whether someone is being withdrawing (and it feels, as NML, that they are pulling away and it’s familiar) in a hot-cold way, and when someone is gently setting boundaries with us?
    
    I think about my letchy uncle or my emotionally demanding cousin: when they try to get too close, they are met with a polite, and hopefully kind – but sometimes annoyed, wall; we’re not ‘blowing hot and cold’ but to them it might feel that way, no?
    
    I guess the crap thing is having ‘friends’ whom I feel indulge me despite my weaknesses, rather than buddies who are as flawed as I am and will be in the messiness with me.
    
    Thanks for responding, cc and Alison. I’m as guilty of wanting to hang out with these women because it made *me* feel special.
    
    Is there no end to it? Lol …
    - cc on at 11:01 am
      
      hmmm. lessee…this might be beyond my pay grade.
      
      boundary setting: i think people know, e.g. your letchy uncle (sorry!) or your emotionally demanding cousin, particularly over the course of time, when they’ve “gone too far”, and they stop or back off. a boundary is when someone draws a line but still hangs around. hot and cold is – hot and cold, when someone who has given you one clear expectation suddenly reverses themselves….and then reverses again when it suits them. a boundary may be one-sided but it is an element of respect, and in a healthy relationship is respected by both sides and sometimes gets lowered out of trust. there is no respect in hot and cold.
      
      but i think that people who have boundaries can more easily recognize them than those who don’t and are less prone to misinterpreting the boundary.
      
      and, mags…
      – “I guess the crap thing is having ‘friends’ whom I feel indulge me despite my weaknesses” – not sure what you mean, but … wait, yes. we want friends who love us the way we are and gently guide/commiserate us in tough/cranky times, not those who merely tolerate us.
      – don’t feel guilty for wanting to feel special, there is nothing wrong with that. we all do. but there has to be more to a relationship than mutual ego stroking – just look at all of BR. we don’t want sycophants – we want people who … what’s that saying? a good friend is someone who walks in when the rest of the world walks out.
happy b on at 8:41 am

“The person who blows hot and cold thrives on control and equates feeling out of control with desire. They value what they don’t have and ‘newness’, so you’re on borrowed time.”

Yes the ex-not-bf did explain away his actions by saying he needs newness. I ended up interpreting his behaviour as being all about trying to be needed, so still about needing control. I think what made him blow hot was the chance to be a rescuer, and he’d blow cold once they depend on him. So my efforts to make him chase me always backfired. He wasn’t bothered if I got involved with other men and would even encourage it. But say I was poorly or in some kind of crisis, he’d become a hero, going way overboard in the care and at the same time desiring me and acting like it’s a relationship, domestic bliss. This confused me that he’d blow hot if I was poorly and felt gross, but then I got it. What’s more, if he got into ambiguous things with other women, they were always having some kind of a rough time. I thought this was to make me sympathise but I think it’s more that he wouldn’t have got involved with them otherwise. I’m just glad I didn’t go far enough to try and get his attention in this negative way.

I can’t believe that this person with whom I had the hallmarks but not the landmarks for many years has absolutely zero to say to me. That I’ve walked away and he has no apology, no defense, no anger, absolutely nothing. No attachment. It’s also a mindbender for me that for someone who treated me casually, who seemed so chilled out and friendly and almost spiritually-unattached, it was actually about control and he was very much in control.
- Outergirl on at 9:18 pm
  
  It is very much like Kelli commented earlier, if they are truly personality disorderd and IMHO you have to be to put people through this. Good people, people who care about you, then the devaluation comes after the love bombing. You served your purpose, either they could control you and got bored or they could not control you and..got bored. It is taking me so long to get over this past situation [over a year now] not so much for his pathetic attempts to grab a toe hold in my life as it is to realize, there was no love, I meant nothing, I was not mourned. If I was missed [and I must have been; hence the pathetic attempts] it was because, as Natalie has so well stated; he wasn’t done, he wanted to chance his arm and get his narcissitic supply back. P.S. looking forward to Kelli’s blog!
teachable on at 3:00 pm

Jessica I LOVE your story. I especially like that when the EUM started blowing cold, you let him know you would keep dating other ppl. I’ve seen this referred to elsewhere as circular dating & in theory at least it sounds like not a bad idea, esp for someone like me who takes AGES before I have sex with somebody (so it really would be ‘just’ dating LOL). I’d also be happy to date exclusively of course but not unless I felt I knew enough about a person to think they might be ‘the one’ & this was a mutual arrangement which had been openly discussed & agreed upon. Good for you! Gotta love a happy ending! 🙂
cc on at 3:08 pm

so….

i’ve read through every single response here so far. and its coming even clearer to me.

…recently i had a health scare, serious but ultimately not bone-chillingly scary, something that needs to be dealt with and through the dealing will hopefully be fixed.

and as i told the people i love and trust about this, i was asTONished by their reactions…they were so unbelievably supportive, they THANKED me for including them (in…? my nightmare? how much must you love me to thank me for that?) and for trusting them (however much i babble on here about details about my life, i’m actually pretty private…and what i’m going through is really personal), and they’ve been sweet and understanding and CONSISTENT with me. they showed me what it looks like when someone actually really cares about you. they taught me about love, and i pride myself on being loving – yeah. i’m an amateur.

…and this space started to open around me, this precious place populated with the people i love and who love me. the weather here is gorgeous and the winds blow with gratitude and softness and gentleness. and a border started to form around this place that keeps US in and OTHERs out. its not a vault, but its there. and a sentinel showed up to guard this border. she isn’t armed, and she’s not a flinty bitch, but she’s discerning, at the ready and on the job. she hasn’t started issuing new passports yet, but she’s got a list of criteria. fairly tough ones.

and i can really see what real love is and what it isn’t. and how i have spent the past few years trying to chase up love from the unproven and the unqualified, all of whom were hot-and-cold blowers, and blaming myself for every time it didn’t work out. partly i didn’t know any better, but mostly i didn’t value myself anywhere near enough to have this space and this border.

my struggle with my crap is hardly over, but i can see more easily now what it means to have good boundaries. and to see them and me as worth defending, to go slowly and let someone unfold and show you who they are before you let them in. and to not chase “love”. to, with no agenda or muscularity, sit in your lovely, warm, bordered space and see who drives up to the sentinel and how they treat her.

i guess that’s ultimately what i got for my birthday. boundaries. ’bout friggin’ time.

thanks and love to all BR.
- selfhelpgal on at 5:38 pm
  
  @CC
  
  Great post, I needed to hear it. I am very bad about boundaries, learning but very bad. I am too lenient, loving and obviously have not respected or loved myself enough to make proper ones. I am a giver, so it’s hard not to give and allow. I have known this for a while. Anyway, nice, upbeat post, I really felt your light, and I am having a terrible morning. Doing way too much thinking and beating up on self. I love the light and happiness you shared.
  Thank you
  Hugs right back at YOU!
- josie on at 9:58 pm
  
  What a beautiful post and beautifully written CC.
  
  I thank you forrit.
  
  x
  - cc on at 3:31 pm
    
    selfhelp, josie-
    thanks guys! glad it helped!
- blueberry girl on at 5:58 pm
  
  cc.
  Wow, that’s powerful.
  I’m just starting to experience the relief that comes with letting go after a mighty struggle with a destructive non-relationship.
  
  For me, the goal is peace and acceptance. Thanks for the great post.
teachable on at 3:21 pm

Colee

I get a really bad feeling in my gut reading your posts about Mr Phoned You At 4 am. I worked for many years for a domestic violence service where my job was to help keep women & children safe from violent abusive men. Something about that guy is ringing very loud ALARM BELLS in my head. For starters, he’s deliberately screwing with your mind, & from what you have posted even openly admits this. This suggests a measure of brazeness about him. He also clearly sees you as weak & some sort of toy he can play like a cat with a mouse when it suits. In order to be dangerous, guys dont always have a history of actual physical violence. Sometimes their abuse is much more subtle & then suddenly out of the blue (to outsiders) things can erupt in a catastrophic event. I’m not saying this to frighten you, so please don’t be scared but also please don’t underestimate this guy. His seeming rumination (obssesion perhaps?) on whether or not you have a new partner & not wanting you to ‘move on’ are BAD signs. My sense is that this guy has at the very least, the potential to be dangerous. If I’m right, just after the break up with him is possibly a heightened time of danger for YOU (ie there may not BE a new b/friend but what if he THOUGHT there was? How might he act then? What if there was alcohol involved as you mention him drinking?). These are just things for you to consider & as I said I don’t mean to alarm you. If you have even the slightest nagging doubt though or notice ANYTHING odd (like him turning up suddenly where you are whilst out etc) PLEASE call your local domestic crisis hotline for advice. Otherwise I suggest don’t ‘play’ with the ending with this guy. Just get out safely & keep an eye out behind you because he sounds jelous, controlling, manipulative, possibly also charming so may just be the sort of guy you need to steer well clear of. Hugs. Of course I also do hope I’m wrong. I’d rather say something & be wrong though, than say nothing & turn out to be right. T 🙂
- grace on at 2:05 am
  teachable, colee
  I concur. I was in a physically abusive relationship and they always start out with the insults and the irrational jealousy.
  Nuke him – if you but up a solid boundary 90% of them will go away and find an easier target. For the other 10% you call the police. And stick to it. Give them an inch and they take a mile.
  I believe the man would rather stick pins in his eyes than knowingly hurt my feelings. It is not normal for men to be horrid to women, and it’s especially not normal in a relationship. I get that it happens but it feels so wrong to me now, almost unnatural.
  I’m moving in different circles these days and I see many men who are strong, gentle, protective. Many/most of us haven’t had that in our lives but learn to love and cherish yourself and I am confident that, should you so wish, you will meet a man who will love and cherish you, and you him.
  Step one, do stop wasting time and energy on losers. There really is no point. I notice a rash of comments lately along the lines of “I can’t, it’s so hard, i don’t know what to do..” It’s just putting off the inevitable. It’s like cutting off a gangrenous limb. It’s gonna have to come off sooner or later and the longer we wait the worse it gets. It is not going to heal. These relationships are not going to give us anything that we want. Not a single worthwhile thing. Healthy relationship strengthen and deepen. The hot and cold ones just deteriorate into hardly anything at all.
  If it makes in any easier, realise there is no choice. Cut it off.
  - Ellyb on at 9:14 am
    
    Colee: I agree with Teachable and Grace! Please stick to NC and do everything to protect yourself.
    
    Also, his remark ”wow, I thought you seemed damaged” when you mentioned your mom and her abusive BF gave me the creeps. Mind you, I grew up in a very toxic home, and guys said the same stuff to me, but it’s actually a reason to get really really angry. They aren’t being empathetic – they try to weaken us further and take advantage of it! It’s so disgusting.
    
    You aren’t “damaged”, you are hurt (at least that’s what I expect) by your family background. That’s a huge difference. Your value hasn’t diminished a bit, no matter what happened to you.
    
    What are those guys thinking? Phew!
    - Mymble on at 11:08 am
      Colee,
      They love saying nasty stuff, disguised as insightful.
      My AC said many such things such as that I had an “air of hopelessness” and was full of “unresolved anxiety”.
      His presence in my life certainly did make me feel anxious and hopeless.
      - lo j on at 4:22 pm
        
        I’ve heard the “what is wrong with you??” and “I feel really sorry for you” thing. It wasn’t empathy and my gut didn’t take it for such though I still hung on. Ugh. Love what Grace said about a man who would rather “stick pins in his eyes than hurt her feelings”. I’ve met men like this (I haven’t dated them). The last AC said such hurtful things when angry, I’d think, “How can someone who loves me say something like that? I don’t even THINK those things?” Um, he didn’t love me. And of course, he would say the sweetest things on the same day. Hot and cold in one day. His mother, WHOM HE LIVED WITH, smh, chalked his behavior up to his (insert last name here) temper. Yes, what was wrong with me. I stayed with him WAY to long.
        Stay no contact.
    - cc on at 11:39 am
      
      ellyb, if i may-
      maybe i’m splitting a hair here, but we’re all damaged. there’s nothing pejorative or damning about that, if we were abused or raised in toxicity, then we are damaged, and we need to heal that. in my view, what we have to do is take the sting out of the word, because yes, colee’s value, all of our value, is undiminished by the damage we have suffered.
      
      the thing is that colee’s nasty, gross AC is damaged too, even more so, because he preys upon others’ injuries. (colee, i agree with teachable, grace and ellyb – he’s BAD news. …trying to toughen you up and teach you lessons?!? who the hell appointed him chief lesson teacher? no! curb!)
      
      but i completely agree with you, the correct response to an unempathetic, controlling “you’re damaged” is “really? and what do you think you are? maybe you need to go eff yourself.”
      
      more to the point – we all need to stop hearing what others/guys say to us as the judgment of some higher power. i used to CRINGE and practically shrivel and die when a guy would criticize me, thinking i was categorically unlovable, and i always got criticized for the same things – “you’re too much” or “you’re too analytical” – but i didn’t need to undo myself according to their needs, i just have to find the right guy.
      – rather than shriveling and dying and deciding something was wrong with me, i should have decided something was wrong with THEM. if someone is criticizing us in the first place, they need to GO. we are not perfect, but we are not to submit ourselves for others’ approval or accept their pronouncements.
      – i AM too much for some guys…guys that i would consider to be kind of high on the spineless scale anyway. i need to be aware of how my intensity might not be great for some people, and learn more subtlety, but the bottom line is that i can be intense and i need a guy who can handle that
      – i AM analytical, as analytical as i am emotional – i tend to think too much, and those who care about me know that and know when its time to say “ok, stop over thinking” to me. but the bottom line to this is i need a guy who is similarly analytical and emotional. i just do.
      
      so, colee, good for you for thinking he’s horrid, he is. you’re still very young, so in future, be careful you don’t let some guy waltz up to you and be your judge or take on the role of shaping you. or tell you about your damage. you’re going to be fine, just remember that.
      - EllyB on at 5:54 pm
        
        cc – I might be splitting hairs too, but I’ve grown somewhat sensitive to wording.
        
        If somebody rams a knife into our leg, do we say we have “leg damage”? Do we treat our leg as a “damaged good”?
        
        Nope, we usually say we have “leg injury”. I think “injury” represents pain, something that’s internal, something that bothers us, but that doesn’t diminish our value. We want our tortured leg to heal – not to just have some “damage” fixed!
        
        I believe “damage” is more external, it says nothing about pain, but a lot about value. I think we somehow distance ourselves from our feelings when we say we are “damaged”. Please correct me if I’m totally wrong, because I’m not a native speaker.
        
        I don’t want to use that word for myself anymore. I’m not “damaged”. I’ve been hurt, and I’m hurting. I’ve read somewhere that PTSD is even considered a physical injury. Anyway, the problem isn’t that I look “damaged” to others. Actually, I don’t care about that (or at least I shouldn’t). I’m hurt, and I’m hurting, and I don’t want to hurt anymore. That’s all that matters.
        
        cc on at 6:52 pm
        
        ellyb-
        let me start by saying i think you and i are coming at the same thing in different ways. words do have deep meaning. we are both wrestling with that, and with the value they give us. ultimately, i think we are on the same page. and i am TOTALLY on your side with you.
        
        what i’m saying, and this just goes for me is … i guess my perspective is, i look at me, and … i’m certainly not proud of being damaged, maybe wounded is a better word, but i am proud, VERY proud, of how i have healed so much of it and how hard i have worked. so, for me, i refuse to allow anyone to judge me by saying “you’re damaged” in a bad way.
        
        i guess my solution was to try to take the sting out of the word “damage”, to remove its more permanent connotations, so as to take the pressure off colee. my purpose in that is to take away the power of others to use a hurtful word like that against us – particularly guys who criticize us in really callous ways, yet, hypocritically, cannot tolerate any criticism themselves. to say someone is “damaged” is certainly hurtful – so i’m just trying to make it not hurt so much. for me, its better, easier to hear “damage” in a different way than to say to someone “please call me injured instead.” ….rather, if someone says that to me, i say “don’t call me at all!” …kidding…mostly….
        
        but i guess words mean to us whatever they mean, they certainly do cut deeply. and really, the semantics don’t matter. what matters, as you say, is that we heal our hurts. you feel it how you feel it, and even though i may not know exactly what that is for you, i certainly know how intense it is and i completely respect that and the fact that you hurt. and i’m sorry that you do. thank you for sharing your particular experience.
        
        now i’m gonna go look up PTSD as a physical injury….
        
        Fearless on at 12:11 am
        
        I agree that “damaged” holds connotations that imply permanency and is associated with inanimate objects (not human beings or animals), so not a good word to apply to such wounds – injured is more appropriate; injuries have the potential for healing.
      - grace on at 11:49 pm
        cc
        im not sure that you do need a guy is analytical and emotional too. a very key difference between the man and me is that he is very optimistic. on paper, that would annoy me but in real life I like the counterpoint.
        I’m not telling you what you should or shouldn’t like but values count for so much more than common interests or personality traits. There can be a danger in looking for someone “like us”. There isn’t anyone else like you and you could be chasing what doesn’t exist. And getting disappointed or hooked by things that ultimately aren’t what make a relationship work.
        
        cc on at 4:20 pm
        
        grace-
        ….my sweet darling, whose opinions i really respect and value…. c’mon, now. while you’ve never met me, you already know me better than to say that to me.
        
        i’m not ruling out other solutions, and i’m very open to happy surprises. and i’m not prioritizing those traits over common values, goals, etc.
        
        but i can’t ignore the fact that the relationships that do work, that thrive, in my life are all with people who share those traits with me. and that dating guys who are not similarly analytical and emotional has NOT worked, in fact has gotten me very, very, VERY hurt.
        
        i’m not looking for someone exactly “like me”. i’m looking for someone who fits with me, who values me for me, exactly as i am, who sees my intelligence, my natural analytical ability, and my natural emotionality – all traits that i can manage, but not change, and really, why would i want to, anyway – as wonderful characteristics, reasons to love me, not reasons to bolt.
        
        this guy, i’m betting, is probably going to be smart, analytical, and emotional, himself. maybe he won’t be, but chances are he will. when i meet him, i’ll let you know.
- Colee on at 7:09 pm
  
  Hey everybody, thank you so much for the replies x
  I did worry about that, because I did see similiarities to him and my mums ex bf(who was phsyically abusive too), long before he even started blowing cold.He got really jeaous and he would try and say stuff to make me jealous like ” all my exes are gorgeous, you are just average” and my mums ex boyfriend use to tell her she was fat and no one else would love her, so it did make me take a step back because it was like seeing history repeat itself, but then I thought maybe I was just being too sensetive and he was just untactful and it didn’t really bother me because I know I’m not pretty, but the damaged comment did hurt because I do worry if it will put other men off.I’ve been in therapy, and even though I can control my eating disroder, it doesn’t go away.Sometimes I want to starve myself, and I do go off food if I’m upset, but now I am ok most of the time and I know when to put my foot down and force myself to eat, or at least tell my big brother so he can keep an eye on me, so his comment really did hurt and your opinions on it make me feel a lot better.
  
  He does drink, but socially.He goes out with his mates on a weekend, but we live in different areas.We could meet on a night out, but I doubt it, and he is a happy drunk.I have broken up with him, we had been in no contact for three weeks until he text me a few days ago which was out of the blue.He’s never hit me or been phsyically threatening, and as far as I am aware he hasnt to any of his other exes but I guess I wouldn’t know.I do know the warning signs though of someone being phsyically abusive, because of mums ex and I do definitely keep an eye out for anything like that.I think being emotionally absuive is even more scary, before we broke up when he was blowing hot and cold I told someone and they said it was like he was just playing a game of how much he could hurt me and get away with it, I asked him if it was true and he said “I dont know, I don’t know my own phsyce” which made me angry, and I guess was one of the contributing factors to pushing me to find this site.I use to be a bit in awe of him with such a big age gap, and I just assumed he would be more mature but I feel like even after everything that happened to me, I am more mature than him.Right now I am at the stage where I hate him.I can’t believe someone can be so cold, cruel and calculating.I use to think that he didn’t realise what he was doing, and that his ex gf cheating on him had messed him up, but now I think he knew exactly what he was doing and he didn’t care, and I doubt whether his ex even cheated on him.I cant trust anything he says.I don’t want the anger to last long, I think the worst stuff about him and I’m not normally the type of person to think horrible thoughts about someone, but I am really angry, I feel emotionally all over the place.Thanks for everyones comments, the more people respond on here the more I wonder why I put up with it xx
  - Allison on at 8:56 pm
    
    Colee,
    
    Abuse is abuse!!!
    
    The comment comparing your appearance to the ex GFs, is abusive! He is trying to break you down. God, i hope you’re not still with this guy? You know he’s bad news!
  - Fearless on at 11:12 pm
    
    Colee,
    
    all his “gorgeous” ex girlfriends are exes for a reason (err… wonder that that could be??!). Emotional abuse is at least as bad and scary as the physical kind, and people, like this guy, can more easily call it something else (whereas a punch in the face is a punch in the face) but it is what it is. It doesn’t matter why, or if he is aware of it or not – the result for you is the same. so stay focused on the result for you (not his reasons, motives, or awareness), though my money is on that he knows full well he is being cruel (how could he not know). stay away from him and others like him Colee; I am glad you have a big brother who will look out for you (maybe he could help you our with things like this too? I hope so). Now, stay NC on this cruel man, who will only make you feel very bad about yourself, and go make yourself something nice to eat! Take the best care of yourself because you are a very important person.
  - Colee on at 4:04 am
    
    No, I am definitely not still with him.I know this is really really bad, but part of me was sort of happy when he contacted me because I don’t know how to explain it, but it felt like he had broken first, like he had been the one who felt the need to contact me, when I wouldn’t have ever contacted him again.I know its not really a good thing and I feel a bit mad at myself for being pleased because I know him contacting mean doesn’t mean he wants me, or anything similiar.
    
    He told me he had been with his ex girlfriend for two years, and she cheated on him and he hadn;t had a girlfriend since, but then he “dripped” me information.Like over time he said that he had seen other girls but they had never gone to his house and he I was the first girl he liked, and then he said they had been to his house, and then one day I asked why he insisted on messing me around if he cared for me so much like he insisted and he told me that I shouldn’t have read into that much, and that maybe he had cared for thoose other girls at one point too, and that there was another girl he’d actually properly liked since splitting with his ex and it wasnt me.Then he went onto say how his exes always text him and it’s annoying.That was sort of the final straw, I didn’t want to be another annoying ex, especially not when I wasnt even one he’d felt particularly strongly about ( although he let me think otherwise at first).It made me especially mad because if it had been me texting me ex, he would have never spoke to me again probably.He said that he goes out with girls for a month and then he “hits a wall” and he was “gutted” when he “realised it had happened” with me , but she said he can’t promise he’s not going to keep doing that to other girls, which is when I realise, hang on, he already knows what he’s doing.If someone told me that my behavior was leading someone on, or hurting someone I would stop, but he doesn’t care.I told him that it wasnt fair to do it to other girls, and he said he wasn’t worried about doing it to other girls and that he knew he would still end up with a really great wife, I think the exact text was ” and lets be honest, we both know I’m not going to end up alone ;)”, the winky face made me sooo angry and I’m normally quite placid. It baffles me, like I know people can be horrible but they arent normally so staright forward about it, they hide it better.
    
    I am very close to my big brother, and he does look out for me, but theres only so much he can do/say to make me feel better.Although he did tell me to break up with the guy really early on in the relationship,before I even discovered the bagage reclaim.Thanks so much for the comments everyone, it really makes me feel better, sometime I worry that it’s my fault or that I gave up on him too easily but talking to peopel and getting different perspectives makes me feel like no, you aren’t seeing him wrong,he really just isnt a nice person. xx
  - Snowboard on at 4:08 am
    
    Hey Colee,
    When you’re eighteen, and have had so few boyfriends, it is hard to know when the one you’re dating is unusually horrendous – but from everything you have described here, I can confirm that yours is far worse than a typically “bad boyfriend”; he is dangerous. If not physically (yet), emotionally and spiritually, and you need to stay away from him to protect yourself. Emotionally abusive relationships can take a much larger toll on us than we tend to imagine while we’re in the middle of them; they can leave wounds that will then negatively impact on our later relationships throughout our lives. Also, if you struggle with eating issues, the last thing you need is a boyfriend who will put down your physical appearance. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder: if this guy wants to call you “average,” why settle for him when you could go out and find another boyfriend who will routinely call you beautiful? Be strong- stay as far away from him as you can get and don’t be scared of “hurting his feelings” – we have to do what we have to do to protect ourselves. I’m rooting for you!
Sophia on at 3:24 pm

We are now too experienced to be taken for a ride.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IjIpOh4WsI

Nat once again, great post. Celebrating Jamaica’s 50th.
teachable on at 3:45 pm

Cc. . I’m not sure about the rest of what you just posted to Magnolia, but the bit which jumped out at me like dogs balls (sorry about the expression. lol) is the big about ppl befriending me b.c I’m a high achiever & they WANT something. This is me all over & yes the gob on!!!!! And STUPID ME doesn’t appear to be very good at distinguising their REAL MOTIVES from the very outset (which would be most helpful btw if anyone can help with that?) although I do seem to sense it reasonably earlyish but then DISBELIEVE MY OWN JUDGEMENT!!!! ie WTH??!!

In fact this is EXACTLY what happened with the ‘bestie’ I’ve just (temp but maybe permanently) let go of! I suspect (& maybe I’m wrong – we haven’t talked so I don’t really don’t know yet) she was seeking to get in with a particular crowd & saw me as her entree to it as well as wanting direction on how to est a career rather than actually wanting to be friends in an equal mutal r.ship!

But what I don’t understand is that I don’t think I have a ‘narrcissistic wound’. I was actually led to believe that I was “lazy dumb & stupid” as a child. As an adult I’ve realised adult that I was most probably (at least to some extent) academically gifted – a trait which remains to this day, & in fact highly motivated to succeed to extraordinary high levels at pretty anything I set my mind to!

So how do I turn that trait & use it to my advantage in my relationships with people I wonder? So far I’m really not sure. I’m not ready to date yet but the idea of aiming to study medicine is really nagging away at me. I need to complete this degree first though, but I am almost there. Anyway, I digress… I just wanted to say… although I DO have boundaries with ‘globby’ ppl (less so with this bestie as I’ve been ill so that was definately down to me), but also I DO relate!!!! 🙂
- cc on at 10:49 pm
  
  teachable-
  i’m pretty sure that a prerequisite for having a narcissistic wound is having a narcissistic parent (or two). only you can answer this, but if they demeaned you with ‘lazy dumb & stupid’, then clearly something was up with them, even if it wasn’t that. i’m sorry you had to endure that.
  
  but good for you for not believing them and for achieving what you are! being academically gifted, though – that’s great on its own, but it doesn’t translate into relationships, other than putting you in touch with like-minded people. from there, you just have to build common experience and like and trust.
Learner on at 3:48 pm

ToA, runnergirl, Colee, Fearless, Lilly, Grace and Teddie,

Thank you so much for your replies and advice re: having to see the exMM at work soon. The suggestions, and especially the support, are very helpful and appreciated.

ToA: I read the article in your link and it offers a great way of looking at this as an opportunity instead of something that brings a risk of going back down the path to OW hell. As an aside, it seems the OOW has acted as his FBG here and since I have turfed him, he has gone back to her for consolation and an ego boost.

Runnergirl: I suppose the jitters are normal, but I didn’t expect this intensity! I went on the meds while I was heavily involved with him, and hadn’t needed them much since the first week or two of NC. It just shows how toxic it is to be exposed to the whole mess even now. I will NOT sit with him at the sessions, although there are usually 3 of us that hang out and go for coffee runs for each other so I will have to think of a reason why I won’t be joining the trio (exMM and his close male friend who is actually a really super guy with great morals!). It’s always good to “network” with others, I suppose. No more FB snooping for me – I actually clicked on his profile to *block* him, and was greeted by the OOW “smiling at me” from that tree stump. Never again. He is blocked! And I will plan to be as close to cold as ice towards the cheating cheater as I can manage while maintaining a professional approach. Great idea!

Colee: Hmm, becoming desensitized to the exMM through more exposure to him. Interesting idea, and he does have some “blood and guts” qualities to him lol. Like you, I know I will remember this guy’s cheating if I feel the urge to strike up a non-work-related conversation. The tricky thing is I will *have* to talk to him as we work on this project. I will keep it all business.

Fearless: never thought of it as still having him on a pedestal. I just imagined him sitting there with a smug smile thinking “yep – I had her for three years, but I didn’t want her full time. Too many other options to let her tie me down. I bet she’s devastated.” To big myself up as you suggested, I am not going to be bothered what he thinks. I will focus on doing the best job possible, and when I see him, I can think “yep – I had him for three years. But he turned out to be a ghastly, hypocritical, manipulating, sleaze-bag, creepy wanker (thanks for these words, Fearless) so I ditched him”. All while smiling as though I am the happiest I have ever been. He really IS a wanker. I’m feeling better already!

Lilly: I feel a big dose of cool, calm, collected indifference coming up! There is a week in which to practice coming across this way. I will fake it till I feel it! Hugs to you too as we head into week 7 NC soon 🙂

Grace: Thanks to you and Fearless for the “options” explanation above. I love your “positive affirmations” idea. The time limit for this affair is up, yes! As Natalie says, the “sell-by date” has passed. Moving on to live my own life now.

Teddie: self-hypnosis, huh? Sounds much healthier than taking benzodiazapines! And no hangover effect I’m thinking. I’ll give it a go!

Thanks everyone! Hugs to all xo
Awakened on at 4:18 pm

You know I think this posting also applies to female relationships as well. I have a few female friends that I may have went to school with years ago who blew hot and cold for years and they still do. Alot of them are jealous; have issues; divorced; abused; and are just damaged. Those relationships were both good and bad and those same friends( I call them associates because they are not cLassified as my true friends) to this day try and reappear back into my life as if we can pick up from high school. If we don’t talk on the phone every day and we are not close why on earth would we keep in touch over Facebook or twitter? That shows their unavailabilty using social sites to keep in touch. They are not capable of communicating; picking up the phone; and forming a right relationship. It makes no sense to me. Things change when you were in high school. You got older; you grew up; you have different values; may now choose which females and friends you associate with. Some of who hung out in high school you may not choose to even hang out or associate with today. I myself have had the same great true friend for the last ten years so I know who my true friends are. We don’t associate over social sites. We pick up the phone and talk everyday. Our friendship is genuine. I can pray for her and she can pray for me. There is a spiritual bond between us so thats what i consider a great friendsip. A true friend. When you have to shut old associates out of your life its not you being cold it’s just that you have grown up and there is no friendship compatibility there now because you have different lives. You desire different things. I have had associates that I have had to shut out because I see that those relationships don’t add value to my life. So this doesn’t just apply to our ex EUM’s or assclown males. You have to monitor and watch other relationships closely as well and you can see signs of hot and cold or unavailabilty. So I guess thats why we shouldn’t be as surprised to see it in our relationships with who we date. We have to take on accountability for all our relationships.
teachable on at 4:47 pm

Scarlett. I’m sorry to hear that you’re dealing with such a painful situation. It is never easy when a loved one preferences their relationship with an addiction over their relationship with us. I think I might understand a little of what you’re going through. I split up with my ex, who I loved very much 17 years ago when it turned out that he had a problem with binge driking. We had been together for 3 1/2 maybe close to 4 ish years. I told him to get sober & that I’d be happy to see what might be possible if or when he got 12 mths of sobriety. I did not stick around in the interim as I knew that he may never get sober as only a few who seek recovery from addiction or alcoholism (even ‘just’ binge drinking as I thought of it back then) actually acheive it. Fast forward 17 years. He re- enters my life. This time it turns out he is on a drug replacement program & battling a drug problem. He did not at first admit to any of this but eventually the truth came out. I attempted to support him to get into treatment. He FINALLY went to rehab 2 & 1/2 years later. For much of the intervening time, we were estranged, for obvious reasons – by now he was not only a consumate liar but also an emotionally abusive AC. Whilst in treatment a wasps nest of lies was exposed after I did a bit of digging around when a couple of things he’d said didn’t quite add up. I hit the roof one final time in disgust at having been so callously & willfully deceived by him on a MAJOR issue & immediately went NC. I never spoke to him again. He left rehab prematurely (after only three weeks), & was out & about using drugs somewhere, in a bad way. Did I still ‘care’ about him & love him even? Of course I did! But I knew that I could not fix him, rescue him or change him in any way shape or form. I had done my best & it was time for me to bow out. I was terrified. WHAT IF HE DIED?! Well, only weeks after leaving rehab, that is exactly what happened. I was mths into NC by the time I found out which was many months after the date of his actual death. Before I went NC, like you telling this mans Mother you suspect he is on drugs, I told my ex’s sister that he had a serious drug problem & was at serious risk, in an attempt to warn the family of the disaster I could see coming ahead. It was to no avail. People were so busy shooting the messenger (it was a stressful time for their family as their Mum had just died) that they couldn’t HEAR the message let alone DO anything about it. The outcome is the same however. Nothing we can do can stop someone we love from using drugs although we certainly can put consequences in place which make life very uncomfortable for them if they choose to do so (such as withdraw from their lives for example). Perhaps they will find recovery & perhaps they wont. What you CAN do is let his parents know about12 step groups like Alcohics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous & Alanon & explain that recovery IS possible through these places. THEN MOVE ON. You owe it to yourself to be happy & at peace. This man may NEVER be able bring you either. Quite the opposite, instead he might just take YOU down with him, emotionally or financially perhaps, if you are not careful & allow him to, because ‘misery loves company’. I know this hurt. A lot. But be strong. By walking away know that you are actually helping to bring his ‘bottom’ up to him so that hopefully he will be motivated to go to rehab & get well. I wish you well. T x
Jazzy on at 4:55 pm
WOW….This article (thank you Natalie) perfectly describes the last 13 years, yes, I said 13 years of my life with Mr. Unavailable. I thought maybe he had BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) or was at the very least Passive Aggressive…but regardless of how I’ve diagnosed him, :), it is over!! THANK YOU LORD! FREEDOM…FREEDOM….FREEDOM….(George Micheal)…The thing is, you are the only person I’ve heard characterize this type of behavior as ‘Blowing Hot & Cold’ and it is so right on! Yes it is “ambivalent, ambiguous, inconsistent, contradictory, unreliable, unstable and yes, at times, assclownary” and men (people) who display this kind of behavior cannot and should not be trusted.
My advice: Trust your gut (I didn’t) and don’t waste time with these people (morons). We all deserve better!! Thanks again Natalie.
- Ninja on at 5:32 pm
  
  Like you Jazzy I didn’t know there were names for these jack asses. I recently got into a ‘relationship’ for want of a better word 😉 with a guy who is a mix of AC and H/C. Its mind blowing how these guys mess with your brain, they treat you like a queen and then the very next day pull the rug from beneath your feet leaving you wondering what the hell you did. Every time I tried to pull away he pleaded with me and stupido here, was sucked back in. Until that is, he got bored and allowed me to move on. Think he guessed I was on to him and it was only a matter of time he could keep his show running 🙂 Today has been an epiphany for me discovering this website and realising that there are thousands of emotionally handicapped guys out there that fall into these ‘invalid’ categories. For a moment, I really thought it was me being too needy, being too suffocating, being too anything really – when all along he just wasn’t capable of forming a real relationship where normal actions and reactions take place.
  
  Anyway, good for you for realising and moving on with your life – I so wish you all the luck and joy the world has to offer you x
can relate on at 5:15 pm

I actually had a relationship that was EXACTLY like this. When I got closer to the truth, and his real character, he would make a horrendous exit and disappear. I was happy for his disappearance, and would consider the relationship dead. He would then reappear, make up some lame excuse, and then want to pick up where he exited. If I brought up the cause of the disappearance, he would blow up and become snippy. After this happened the second time, (the first time I came back, taking some responsiblity) I did not come back. I moved on. The guy then, hoovered for about 5 years, literally. He would send me notes on Mothers Day, etc. Eventually, after the 5 year mark, being annoyed, I finally picked up the phone, and pretended to not even know who it was. Then, I when I did acknowledge him, I told him to never contact me again. He says, “why so bitter?” I say, “not bitter.. Just done.. I am so over this”

I think about that tumultous relationship before it ended the way it did, and there serious red flags. Like you mentioned, he tried to fast forward the relationship. He did not like that he had to EARN intimacy. When he reappeared the second time, it was like he was demanding it, and it did not like his lowered status, although he accepted it. (the friend zone). I then demoted him from friend, when I saw that he couldnt own up to his crappy behavior and I just said, “I am not friends with those I’ve bedded. Whatever destroyed the romance, typically destroys the friendship as well). He would then go on tirades about how “wrong” I am. There is no right or wrong, and the more frustrated he got that he couldnt control me, ( I started seeing other people) the more insidious his behavior, comments and accusations. He then resorted to gaslight, trying to rewrite histories of mine that he wasnt even a part of. He would say, “you have trouble with all men!” and then twist half truths around of situations I had with clients, etc. I would say, “I only have issues with you. stop contacting me, I dont like your idea of fun, or what you are getting out of this” Since then, whatever feelings I had, or admiration, went out the window. I thought he was a successful businessman, etc, but he is actually quite the loser, and after stalking me for 5 years, after no response, a really pathetic one on top of that.

I cant beleive I gave this guy ANY power. I did go back and read some journals I wrote when we were together, and in the beginning, he seemed to have the capacity to be very loving, but toward the end, it was obvious he had issues with control. He would goto great lengths to get it, even looking like a complete and total lunatic, under the guise of him “caring”, and then dismissing everything. (ie, if I asked him a question, he would hang up the phone in my face, and then come back and claim that the call was dropped. When I called him on this dance, that I could set the music to, he nearly blew a gasket.. But worse, he would blame ME, and say, “you had to get off the phone” Pathetic, psychotic even.

You are right, these relationships are a WASTE!!!!I did not realize it was hot cold until the second disappearance. The first one, I took responsiblity for, actually thinking it was something I had done that was out of line. But it wasnt. I smartened up the second time, but still, HOW EXHAUSTING!

When these people disappear, make sure they stay gone. I made the mistake of engaging this creep the second time.
- Lesson Learned on at 8:35 pm
  
  @can relate…I think we both dated the same guy, lol. I got out of a very similar relationship about a year ago and I’m still dealing with the remnants of the emotional and psychological abuse. I’ve learned that these types of guys usually suffer from a personality disorder, as I have discovered with my ex who is narcissistic, border line, and bipolar.
  
  My advice for any of you still involved with these types of men is to please end the relationship and never look back. Another thing I learned is to learn to trust your gut instincts.
LoopyLou on at 6:02 pm

Hiya Nat and others!
Loving the articles the last few days, totally describing my last relationship… “relationship” *cough cough*

My question (and perhaps i am being dense here and your all going to be screaming “OBVIOUSLY the answer is…”) but what do you do the moment you notice someone is blowing cold? i know guys CAN and DO ~(and iv asked some male friends who are currently in good relationships) once in a while back off, to see how you react. surely the very moment someone blows cold you cant just NC them and run away as fast as you can? there wont be any left =( how do you handle the situation early on to nip it in the bud?
hope that makes sense?

Thanks
xxx
- Fearless on at 10:32 pm
  
  “surely the very moment someone blows cold you cant just NC them and run away as fast as you can?”
  
  Why not?
  There’ll be one of what left? Assclowns who think it’s okay to blow hot and cold, keep their options open at your expense and manage your expectations down to nothing? Good, that’s the general idea! 🙂
  - Fearless on at 10:51 pm
    
    Loopy Lou,
    
    sorry, that should have read ‘none’ of what left? – to clarify: I wouldn’t worry about there being no guys left who will run cold just to see how you react. Good. We hope they die out like the do-do bird. This is not behaviour that you want to be part of. Running cold “to see how you react” is a big fat red flag. They have no business manipulating/testing you in that way and if they do you should let them see exactly how you’d react – by not seeing them again; that’s how you “nip it in the bud”.
    - LoopyLou on at 12:04 am
      
      Very fair point indeed Fearless!
      Thanks for your response, you are right, I just sometimes worry that im being too harsh y’know? but yeh, i guess when they start blowing cold i should just find someone who wont be so manipulative =)
      
      Thanks again xx
    - pinkpanther on at 1:17 am
      
      And to answer your question (from the gay girl perspective) “surely the very moment someone blows cold you cant just NC them and run away as fast as you can?”
      
      Oh yes you can run. Run fast, run far. Don’t give em the satisfaction of toying with you. Don’t waste your time. No they don’t even get one little chink of your heart.
      
      I love the ones who reveal themselves right off the bat, saves time. You will also gain lots of self esteem and that’s priceless.
    - Ellyb on at 10:48 am
      
      About 15 years ago, I also believed “blowing cold” and “testing us” was “normal”, and do you know how that ended? I was with that nerdy, awkward, plain guy (I mentioned him elsewhere) who wanted me only for sex.
      
      Soon after the “hot” phase, he started hanging up on me on the phone whenever I “whined” too much about my traumatic childhood (I had moved out from my parents’ only a year before). I had suffered through narcissistic abuse, sexual abuse and 10 years of severe bullying at school, but he found it “too tiring” to listen to all of this and punished me with several days of NC whenever I tried to talk about it.
      
      After the first incident, I desperately tried to be a “better girl”, to always be cheerful, to never show any pain or worries and to give him sex, sex, sex instead… But every once in a while, I started “whining” (???) again and he went NC again until I begged, begged, begged him to take me back.
      
      I also became extremely jealous (I’m ashamed of that). I always expected some other lady to “take him away from me”. I thought he might be able to truly love her, while he always wanted me only for sex.
      
      I tried to be all empathetic and patient about his “need for space” and his “unwillingness to commit”.
      
      But after a while, I couldn’t stand having sex with him anymore. I could only bring myself to give him BJs, and even that felt horrible, but I thought it was my “duty” to do that.
      
      He always accused me of “emotionally blackmailing” him by “witholding sex” (as if BJs weren’t sex). I felt extremely guilty. I wondered what was wrong with me. But I also wondered why I was feeling so horrible???
      - HS on at 3:13 pm
        
        EllyB, I think we have very low self esteem, that’s why we allowed these guys threat us like sh@t, because the girl who loves and respects herself would not put up with assclown ‘s behaviour! We have to change ourselves, start loving and respecting our minds and bodies, have clear boundaries with friends, relatives, co-workers…. and men! Grace was right, we need to heal first, I am not ready for anything, I want to be single and happy:-) ALL the best xx
- grace on at 1:31 am
  
  Loopy
  Ultimately, you have to trust your instincts. There’s no guidebook that’s going to tell you what to do in every conceivable circ*mstance. Sometimes, it may be okay to give someone space. If I had a row with someone I was dating, I might give it a day to simmer down. I’d think that two would be pushing it. If I had children with someone and we were living together, two days would be entirely too long.
  Ultimately, you and the man have to share the same values then you’ll naturally find yourselves pulling together, like a rowing team. It will work.
  I am sceptical when you say these men you talk to are in good relationships. The men I talk to who are in good relationships are entirely consistent. In fact, I would go so far as to say they can be MORE consistent than their wives/girlfriends. They’ve been supportive, encouraging and loyal in the face of their wives’ miscarriages, depressions, hormonal upheavals.
  I personally don’t think that playing games has any place in a solid relationship.I’ve done it and had it done to me. It’s immature and cowardly.
- can relate on at 5:58 am
  
  Realize that this hot cold behavior is not normal, nor respectible. Thats why its imperative you NC them. If its after less than 4 dates, then, they dont owe you an explanation, but if you guys are involved, to run cold all of a sudden, is not normal.
  
  Either they are 1) too emotionally immature to even articulate their own feelings to themselves, and they dont know how to respond to you.. or 2) They are actually doing this intentionally.
  
  Either way, you dont want this person. Either way, this person doesnt have the capacity to give you a mature relationship. Either way, you’ve been warned. And unless you are just as emotionally immature as they are, and are not affected by their coldness, then you will be devastated. Period.
  
  In my case, when I went back the first time this guy ran cold, it was a mistake. A normal, mature human being would’ve addressed the issues at hand, and not just run cold.
  
  Running cold is rude. Running cold is telling the other person, “hey, I dont respect you, and dont give a flying F about you. If you come back, WHATEVER!”
  
  Thats how I interprete it.
  
  Apparently, how I reacted was not the typical response. My response is, “oh, so you want to disappear? How mature.. Well, stay gone then”
  
  When my ex made a reappearance, he couldnt handle his lowered status. He stalked me for five years!!!!! He resorted to lowly tactics that were pathetic.
  
  I was further disgusted that I ever engaged in any type of relationship with such a person.
  
  Running Cold is a huge huge red flag.. Its either a test of how much disrespect you will put up, a test of your self esteem, or the person is just socially and emotionally too immature to have a relationship.
  
  Either way, who cares… Do what this articles says… Dont do hot/cold, do consistent!!
  - cc on at 1:22 pm
    
    canrelate-
    exactly. spot on.
    
    further, yes, we do indeed keep getting the same lessons over and over until we learn them. hot and cold is one of them.
    
    i recently dated a guy who, i only realize after the fact, was blowing HOT: brought me little presents on dates 1-3 (nice, and i fell for it, but in hindsight a bit much?), talked incessantly about the things we would do together (fast forwarding), wrote me notes while i was in the ladies room at dinner that i’d find under my bread plate and texted me very frequently (oh, how cute, i thought! NO – sweet, but is evidence that he’s not really grown up and was blowing hard, in retrospect) and somewhere between dates 3 and 4 started going COLD – after date 4 he was gone.
    
    now, maybe i did or said something that threw him off (god forbid, i was myself!). but the evidence was all already there that he wasn’t up for something real – witness his never telling me what his romantic goals were (while mine are spelled out in my online profile) and his quizzing me about me but being reticent to talk about himself much (him: “you’ll have to dig it out of me.” me: “… i don’t want to have to dig it out of you, if you don’t want to tell me, that’s fine, don’t tell me”).
    
    after 3+ weeks of silence, i bumped into him at a conference last week –
    him: hey…..
    me: hey!
    him: i owe you an explanation
    me: no, you really don’t (smile, which i somehow managed to pull off convincingly). truly.
    h: well, i’d like to see you again
    m: thanks, but i don’t think that’s a good idea
    h: but you said you didn’t need an explanation
    m: i don’t. but you clearly made a choice, and you should stick with it.
    h: (flabbergasted)
    m: take good care! (sashayed off)
    
    i was so proud!! i didn’t feel bad! i didn’t even get pissed off!
    - grace on at 5:59 pm
      cc
      “m: i don’t. but you clearly made a choice, and you should stick with it.
      h: (flabbergasted)”
      Perfection. They think that one day they can choose you. The next day they can unchoose you. Let’s make the decision for them!
      - cc on at 6:55 pm
        
        thanks, gracie!!! heeee….
      - Fearless on at 10:14 pm
        
        Grace
        “They think that one day they can choose you. The next day they can unchoose you.”
        
        Well put. That is really it in a nutshell.
        
        cc. Well handled! Good for you.
    - Stephanie on at 6:19 pm
      cc – your comment made me laugh! I’d love to see the clown that blew hot then ice cold with me! It will never happen as we don’t mix in the same circles professionally or socially and I’m not going out of my way to bump into him.
      - cc on at 7:02 pm
        
        stephanie-
        i gotta tell you, i practically live in fear of bumping into exes, a fear that gets worse every time i read on BR of someone seeing an ex and how excruciatingly awful it was….
        
        well, this guy wasn’t an ex, we just had 4 dates. but i did surprise myself at how i handled it. i didn’t even realize until after i had walked away that 1) i survived the unexpected exchange 2) i …. drum roll …. opted out… i just opted out … who knew….
        
        omg! i actually opted out!!
    - LoopyLou on at 7:19 pm
      
      Thanks everyone for all your responses! your all absolutely right, if they start blowing cold its a red flag to run! if its a little test then they need to grow up!
      grace, i like the ‘ultimately, trust your instincts’ … im terrible for thinking theres a textbook answer/response to everything a man says/does, but there isnt, suppose i should just be myself and let the chips fall where they may =)
      Thanks all so muchhh i shall take this when i get back to dating, dont think im quite ready yet after my last “relationship” (or what could loosely be described as one!)
      xxx <3
  - jasmine on at 3:55 am
    
    can relate, love love what you wrote …i’ve read it a few times now!
  - Little Star on at 8:06 am
    
    Can Relate, love your comment. You said: “My response is, “oh, so you want to disappear? How mature.. Well, stay gone then”
    Next time if someone disappear on me, I will do exactly the same! AND another thing you are spot on about: “Its either a test of how much disrespect you will put up, a test of your self esteem”, I had low self esteem and AC knew how to manipulate me, I thought he was missing me that’s why he was appearing after disappearing! Gosh, how stupid and naive I was! He did not respect me AT ALL, I was just there for him and he knew that and kept “playing” with my emotions…No more, glad that he is not in my life anymore, my “door closed” for him forever!
Ellyb on at 7:17 pm

I guess some of you might disagree, but it has just occured to me how much fashion and advertisem*nt are littered with AC patterns too.

Take fashion: One day you believe you are the hottest person ever because you wear the right type of jeans/fabric/color, the next day your outfit is suddenly outdated, everybody says it’s ugly, and you don’t even know what you’ve done wrong. Of course that means you have to adopt new trends quicker – but what is the new trend? And what is the right time to jump the bandwagon? It’s like you can never do it right – just like with an AC.

Mind you, I’m not a fashionista, but those patterns often made me feel insecure anyway. I think we need to see through those patterns and realize we’re never going to get true validation from there. Of course, the fashion industry doesn’t want us to arrive at that point!

Today I stumbled upon the word “problem area” in an article about how to pick the “perfect” pants. Until now, I never questioned the (frequent) use of that word. But now I’m getting angry. Nobody has a right to call any part of my body a “problem area”, only because it doesn’t look perfect in today’s (rather unflattering) fashion! I consider that an insult. Again, that’s exactly the kind of crap an AC would feed us. Both – ACs and large parts of the advertising/fashion industry – first inflict insecurities and then try to take advantage of them.
- Fearless on at 10:33 pm
  
  Ellyb,
  This is true, you don’t need to by into the manipulation. Wear what you like.
- yoghurt on at 11:21 pm
  
  ellyb
  
  I think (putting my philosopher’s hat on) that there are an awful lot of parallels between ACs and our brand of capitalist society meself. Both rely, to an extent, on diminishing your self-esteem and hoodwinking you into believing that their shoddy brand of whatever is the answer, so that they can benefit from your attempts to feel alright about yourself.
  
  I’m finding that I’m increasingly free of the Tyranny of Cool, it’s taken me 30 years to do it but now I finally judge things on whether or not ***I*** like them – it’s ace 🙂
- Lilia on at 2:50 am
  
  Yes, that is so true, Ellyb, and I´ve always wondered at what makes some women to be perceived as elegant. I may be wrong, but I think it´s the ones who DON´T follow fashion, and just stick to simple, basic clothes and accesories.
  
  Not sure how this fits into relationships, other than don´t try to be a people(fashion?) pleaser, just love yourself for who you are and you´ll be respected much more if you let yourself be manipulated.
Awakened on at 8:26 pm
@Can Relate hearing your story I definitely saw the same signs with my ex EUM. As if the first dissapearing act was not Enough and then they pull a second one. Just crazy nonsense. I should have knew who he was when he dissapeared the first time months ago and yes thinking I had done something wrong. That is what the assclown’s want you to think. They want control. And they can’t take you being ok with their rejection and just being ok with walking.. He disappeared and i went NC. I was not about to run behind to question other than my one email keeping it brief. The no response to my one email was his way of throwing more rejection my way and he wanted me to feel it deeply. To be quite frank the more I think about his last dissapearing Act he pulled; I think he really did have a mental problem seriously. Who dissapears; doesn’t respond to email but stalks someone’s twitter and makes fake cruel profile pages just to manipulate someone to get a reaction? This is what the ass hole was doing to me; not wanting to pick up the phone; contact me or even respond to my email but would indirectly stalk my social networking page?!? And I knew it was him. It was just too suspicious and the timing of what went down over the course of the months and not hearing a word from him. Directly Ofcourse. 🙂 I am smarter than you think I am. He will never have to worry about hearing from me again. When they dissapear let them and thank God and your lucky stars that it’s over.
- Smootches on at 2:21 am
  
  I can totally relate to this, I’m going on wk 2 of know contact. After a year and 5 months I had enough of the tug of war. So over it, he played the Mr. Nice Guy with a wicked hidden agenda. He went from being so nice to cold, distant, and on top of that he was a truck driver. I know major red flag! For about the first 6 months things were good then for 4 months I did not see him at all. It was texting and talking on the phone this was very frustrating. He wanted me to initiate all the calling, the same excuse I’m busy with work. Then he would blow hot&cold, I even told him he had some passive aggressive issues as well and he would always flip things to try to make me look bad. I got sick of the emotional roller-coaster and I told him don’t fire me because I quit. I haven’t spoke with him since in any form. I felt so much better, that I had the strength to walk away. We will be fine because God doesn’t take anything away from you without giving you something better.
- canrelate on at 1:13 pm
  
  OMG.. this was also my experience exactly. He would rant and attack me through emails, but then, he claimed he never read my responses, and now I know why. I typically agreed with him. When he would gaslight, and I would say, “you are right. What a horrible person I am, thank goodness we are not together!”
  
  After I was done, I was done. And these people, I guess, they must not have enough supply of distractions to leave us alone, if the continue to try to contact, after clearly we are not responding to them.
  
  After he was making such a big deal of being NCd, (and he tried everything, even making up a fake illness of what he was going through at the time, didnt buy it. while he was telling me this fake illness, of course, it was littered with manipulation. He says, “you are going to feel so stupid after I tell why I did A, B, C and D” and I was like, “you are an idiot. The way you treated me to my face, is very very telling and all I need to know, who cares what you have to say”. He went onto say he was going to show me some paperwork, made no sense. (what a recent HIV test?) the constant hoovering was creepy, and downright pathetic.
  
  When I am with someone, I think of the consequences, I guess this guy didnt think this one through. Does it ever occur to them that the other person wont want to take their calls? That they’ve moved on?
  
  I think their narcissism wont allow this possiblity to happen. Or maybe, they are so compulsive, just dont think about the future. Maybe a little of both.
  
  Or maybe they dont give a crap. Maybe they do have a round of other people they are constantly and continuing to disappear and reappear. I guess a lot of people do live like this. I hear this all the time. An ex drops out of the picture, and then, all of a sudden they are back in with no contact?
lo j on at 8:48 pm
I get what you’re saying, Ellyb. I can’t count HOW many times I said to an old (probably all my EU BFs), “you expect me to be ‘perfect’ “. And, I expected me to perfect as well, which is why I was so drawn to them. And appearance was SUCH an important thing for me/them. Now I don’t expect perfection so much. And I don’t beat myself up for not being perfect, whereas before, a bad hair day or a mismatch outfit might ruin my day. (Or some other perceived ‘flaw’ that was my obsession of the day.)
How much time we invest with listening to the bs of the advertisers or the AC’s is determined by how we feel about ourselves. If we feel good about ourselves, the initial criticism will have us turning a deaf ear and walking away, not sticking around for them to let it do damage to our self worth OR TO TRY TO PROVE IT TO THEM OTHERWISE. Oh my. Its so simple yet we make it so complicated.
- Lessons learned on at 2:49 pm
  
  Yes I so agree with Ellyb as well. Fashion and men play on our insecurities; exploit our constant desire to be “perfect”. When I think about the girls/women I most admire, they are not the skinniest, or the best dressed, but rather they radiate this sense of control (in a good way), security and a happiness in their own skin. It really is so attractive.
  
  I hope I can end up like that. In the last few years I have spent all my spare money on clothes, when there are so much more important things I could be spending it on. And I know that I do it because I’m trying to prove to someone (I dont know who) that I’m good enough.
  
  The thing that gets me most is that I never used to be like this. I was a tomboy without a care a what people thought of me – until my first EUM. Now I have had two, 6 years combined, and slowly they whittled away that security that I had in myself. I have been single now for 4 months, and I can begin to feel myself coming back. A lot of great things have happened since I’ve been single (a new job, a great holiday with my best friend, some wonderful nights out). And most importantly, I’m beginning to feel back in control again, and have stopped desiring the feeling that I’m the best dressed/skinniest/prettiest girl in the room.
  
  I want people to be attracted to me for more than that – for my personality, my ideas, my humour. The fashion just hides all that.
  - lo j on at 5:10 pm
    
    I want the personality, great ideas, humor in awesome shoes!!! 🙂
georgia on at 8:49 pm

thank you for this article. it was excruciating…but it got me unstuck, which was even more excruciating. I now know that I’m not crazy, unstable, excessively demanding; I understand why I responded as I did for so long (even tho I regret it).

I reconnected with an old, dear friend a couple years ago, out of the blue. I was in the process of a divorce and my ex left me for an old girlfriend (who he encountered again as a hospital chaplain) about 8 months before. turns out my friend’s wife left him the month before my husband left me (yeah, I verified this). I hadn’t heard from him in about 20 years, and my purpose in sending him that first email was just to say hi–one of those things you do after divorce to gather your resources. there were tremendous synchronicities, and we became very close again very quickly; looking back, there was a tremendous amount of fast-forwarding and future-faking, but I didn’t know it at the time. we lived 800 miles apart, and got together when he was in town a few months later, and it was lovely. a few months later, tho, he began to drift away…it continued, altho he did come again for a visit when he was in town again during that time. but the relationship was always on his terms. ultimately, it became a virtual, email-only relationship, and he was “too busy” and I felt like a pest and was limited in how often I could send notes. still I tried to figure out what I had done wrong, with brief ventures into sanity when I tried to leave the relationship. he always pulled me back in, and I needed so much to believe that I was still lovable that I allowed it. it was a peculiar form of hell, but my life continued to fall apart after the divorce–a car accident, jobs in which my position was cut, financial instability…and my attention was somewhat distracted. however, I was increasingly aware that I needed to get out (of what, exactly??)–and reading this helped me understand the whole dynamic I was involved with.

it’s difficult, because I still don’t have a lot of stability or many people in my life (my only family was my ex-H’s, and they cut me off completely; most friends believed whatever lies ex-H told about me and also cut me off). I have no one to share the good stuff or the difficulties…but, of course, I haven’t really had that all along. but I am finally free–emotionally–of this very strange and painful relationship and able to move forward instead of spending a ridiculous amount of energy trying to figure out what I am doing wrong. thank you so much; this has been a godsend.
Scarlet on at 11:18 pm
Oh thank you so much Cc, Allison, Teachable, Selfhelpgal and Oldenoughtoknowbetter.
You are all inspirational, compassionate and so strong. Thanks for replying and encouraging me to be strong. I hope I can do it. All I know right now is to keep reading these posts.
- selfhelpgal on at 1:48 pm
  
  @Scarlet
  
  HUGS, I am so glad you are reading the posts and staying on it, that is great!! Be proud of you and take it one day at a time. This post (by Natalie) & responses and staying close to other sites over the weekend helped me a lot. I wish you support and hugs on your journey….we all have the strength inside to rise up and do better for ourselves, whether it is the change in our own behaviors, patterns or make better choices moving forward.
  (((HUGS)))
Scarlet on at 11:22 pm

HS too. Maybe we can keep each other strong. Hugs to you in your pain as well.
NikNak on at 12:29 am
Thank you for this article Natalie. This is exactly what I have been going through for the past couple of months with a guy I met off of a dating site. I paid for the site, he did not. He sent me a wink, I replied with an email and it went on from there. Hes a good looking guy (but thats all he is, a good looking guy). He lives an hour away and I drove over a few times to see him at his home town to meet (he doesn’t have a car or a job). I have a car and a job (well not just a job, a career from a college education) and my own place. One day I decided he should put in the effort to take a bus to see me since Ive gone to see him 3 times. He made up every excuse in the book, that he had no money, etc. yet he was out playing pool and going to karaokee every night. He had lots of money for that. He got mad at me one weekend when I invited him over to my place and then I later decided I was too tired to go pick him up on my way home (was 3 hours away visiting family) and he gave me the silent treatment. At this point I developed a very bad feeling about him. Somehow we eventually started talking again. One weekend I picked him up then he had a family member pick up him to take him home. He did pay for the gas money for me to pick him up and took me out for lunch, but he didn’t seem thrilled about doing either and complained about the money he spent although I spent much much more going to see him all those past times. The past week he has been talking about moving to a location much closer to me. He remarked that we haven’t been talking sexual much lately (through lazy communication: texting. of all things), & I told him I have been very stressed from work and that sex has been the last thing on my mind lately. Last night he was talking sexually to me and made a remark that made me feel he wasnt into ME as much as he was into having sex again; having sex with anybody for that matter (not just me, but just sex in general). It was as if he was talking about boinking ANYTHING would make him happy, even if it were an apple pie. He has often not made me feel special. I was upset and let him know, I was offended and that it felt like he is just looking for sex (with anybody) and not really into ME, and his remarks made me feel he misses sex and would do it with any gaping hole. He has given me the silent treatment again. He constantly blows hot and cold. I need to give him up. I can do better. I am out of his league, too good looking, too nice for him. He was lucky I gave him that second chance! His behaviour is abusive and he does not make me feel good about myself. Especially when he blows cold. The hot and cold is really destroying me inside. Hes just not relationship material. Thats all it is to it. My gut instinct in the past was right and I need to listen to it.
- Fearless on at 12:50 pm
  
  Nik Nak
  
  No, it doesn’t sound good at all. Time to bail.
- blueberry girl on at 6:28 pm
  
  Here’s the data: he gives you the silent treatment, blows hot and cold, is abusive, makes you feel bad about yourself, is destroying you inside.
  You’re gut instinct is right. Flush, please, and save yourself.
teachable on at 3:53 am

Cc.

I don’t think any of my multitude of various ‘carers’ in the state care system as a child were NPD’d however one whom I was forced to endure for 9 years was a cruel & sad*stic abuser who targeted me above all others. My Mother whom I was removed from at age 3 1/2 is also SEVERE BPD (borderline) with anti social traits so there was terrible abuse from her also prior to 3 & 1/2. (we were removed due to physical abuse & repeated threats by her to murder us as well as other things too traumatic to talk about here but related to attempted at child murder)… I describe my Mother as ‘king baby’. She will do ANYTHING for attention so long as it keeps the focus on HER, including attempting to destroy the relationships threads of all around her (she has done great damage to my sister & I as adults with some success at this. My sister was diagnosed as slightly learning impaired due to very mild brain damage caused by a bout of meningitis as a baby & so in some ways does not have the cognitive capacity to UNDERSTAND what our mother is doing when this is being done. Despite attempting to have some understanding of the issue of culpability & mental illness I choose to cut all contact with our mother many years ago now. I forgave her for the child abuse when I was in my early 20’s & started afresh giving her a clean slate on which to rewrite our relationship. She wrote on that slate with repeated bouts of abusive behaviour aimed at destroying my relationship with my sister & also my son so I cut her off… Child abuse I can forgive although most would not have done even that. Ongoing abuse as an adult & not caring about destroying my relationships with those closest to me? No effin way lady! !!)

As for aptitude academic land it’s really very little use in the world of behaviour or relationships. Other than the fact that I it (in a fashion)! I’ve been thinking though about my overall life calling…. THAT is what is capturing my attention now, not dating which is to me like an icing on the cake of life. I feel I’m still swimming around in the cake mixture & this is where I want & need to be. There’s important work for me to do here. Both for myself & others. I can’t explain it. I will report back when it becomes clearer. x
teachable on at 5:08 am

* academic aptitude is of no help in the area of human relating I meant other than the fact that I study it I meant. ie I’m a psych major however am finding the work very under stimulating… you may have missed my earlulier posts but to bring you up to speed in grade 5.of primary school I had an excellent teacher. She was very strict & in fact much disliked for this reason. I, however, LOVED her. I don’t know what it was about her but she saw something in me & allowed me to go ahead of the class at the pace I was capable of instead of holding me back with the group. I completed all of the maths & english core competencies through to the end of what was then known here as form two of high school or secondary scool by the end of grade 5. So basically, I was a full 3 years ahead of the rest of the class. Don’t ask me how this was possible but for me it was easy. I recall that already read & write before I got to school so that much I know also. A young teenage aged Aunt used to care for a lot during those very early years & I believe she taught me to read & write very early on (at leadt to some sort of age appropriate level – although I recall writing complete simple sentences before ever starting school). Then, in grade six, I struck a teacher who was the opposite. Because I had completed the basic core curriculum (aside from a couple of other subjects like geograpghy or something which I quickly whipped through) I cooked pizzas all year. I kid you not. That or locked myself away in the library or just read oodles of books which I borrowed out on loan. Books were my escape. They were a place where 1. I was in my element because I had some sort of aptitude which I could see that other children around me did not neccessarily appear to have & 2. they did hurt or abuse me. Anyway. Now I’m waffling. The more I write the more that medicine degree naggs away at me. I’ll be 45 before I even start but here retirement age is not until 67. So that 22 years inclusive of study to give to a new career. I keep asking myself. Should I go for it? Am I just setting another mountain to avoid ppl & inimate r.ships but I think no… maybe not. Many people who achieved good things in this world were unpartnered. Instead they gave their lives to their ’cause’. I don’t want that neccessarily but I also don’t want to shy away from a goal just because it seems ‘big’. I’ve already conquered a lot of at the time seemingly ‘big’ goals…and they seem..just normal. I’m not sure yet though. I will wait & see…
teachable on at 5:48 am
I relate to the mixed signal from the ex flatmate Magnolia. It’s the SAME behaviour the former bestie who is currently on hold here would do. As nice as pie whenever I saw her or spoke to her. Better would not melt in her mouth & I do believe in some ways she was quite genuine as unlike yr ex flatmate for example once, when for health reasons I almost missed an important specialist appiont, it was in fact this woman who dropped everything to take me. There are other things that confuse me though (I wont go into it). I don’t know about yr ex flat mate but in my sitch I kjow basically some things just arent about me & it’s really as simple as that. When you think about it, it’s actually quite self obsessed for us to make other ppls beh about us (although we all do it lol). I reackon that sometimes ppl are just being ppl & we’re all doing the best we can in any given moment. Sure we rub up against ea other harshly at times & I know I for one definately at times, react, but I don’t think it’s always about us, even when then other intends it to be. I think rather other ppls beh is 100% about THEM. That’s how I’m coming to see things nowadays at least anyways. Not sure if that helps at all. Cheers. T. 🙂
- lo j on at 4:36 pm
  
  Love this comment, Teachable. We are all doing the best we can. I forget this at times and forget we all have our own journeys. You sound happier. I’m glad for you!
teachable on at 8:02 am
No probs scarlet. Try googling your subject. See what you can find on the internet about the futility of relationships w ppl in active addiction. It may help to strengthen yr resolve. When I was going through my sitch & in a period os estrangement I confided in a work colleague as to what was happening. To my surprise, she revealed she had previously been in my position with an ex & that she had fought with him the night before he was due to be admitted to rehab & that she had stormed off & refused to take his calls for the remainder of the evening. He never (phew. this is a bit hard to write). he never made it rehab because he died of drug related causes later that night. When she told me this my ex was still very much alive. I didn’t yet know about a major factor which was the reason he had delayed going to rehab for so long & so was under the illusion that although he was on a drug replacement program, that his chances of recovering were quite good. How wrong I was. I recall trying to sound empathic as she shared her story – I could see the tears well up in her eyes as she talked about regretting arguing with him that night (he wanted to use drugs one last time. she was insisting he not. he did & he died). I tried my best to reassure her hoping desperately that the same fate would not befall me. Not really believing it would in fact (it wasnt until much later that I realise the inevitable was indeed coming). Now I feel as though maybe, perhaps I am the person in her position, as tears are most definately streaming down my face as I type (I still have very mixed emotions, which is ok), & maybe who knows, you might very very well find yourself in my position one day. I hope not for your ex’s sake & for your. But it is a possibility. So what I say to you is this. Cut off now. That is the thing which saved me. I had 6 mths of NC under my belt when I learned the news which buffered me, at least to the extent this was possible for a man I’d once loved many years ago so deeply. DO NOT LET HIM TAKE U DOWN WITH YOU B.C HE WILL IF U LET HIM. That is you job now. To look after you. And that means staying away from him. My heart is with you. Hugs. T x
- Scarlet on at 12:45 pm
  
  Hi Teachable, I have been researching alot about the sort of addiction that he has. It doesn’t look good at all. And I feel very sad for him and his family, but you’re so right – I don’t need to be taken down with them all. I find myself playing carer and saviour but I think I need to save myself first.
  Thanks so much for your support.
4Maree on at 8:52 am

I love your blog since it hits so close to home. I’ve been with an emotionally available man and have experienced the whole “hot and cold” effect. Your blog inspired me to rant about my own experiences. It’s extremely therapeutic. I hope to one day wake up and laugh about this BS i’m going through! Thanks so much for sharing your insight and putting thoughts of many women into words.
teachable on at 10:31 am

I’m SO with you on that post to Scarlet EllyB. Just sending a friendly hello & saying that it’s lovely seeing you interact with people with such a cheerful disposition knowing a little of your story & that it was not always roses & sunshine for you. I can relate to that! I never fail to be in awe of the resiliance of the human spirit – although not everyone is able to take their lemons & make lemonade as you have done. You ought to be very proud of who you are today. Just seeing you around these boards makes me smile (& the same goes for you too Cc!!) Hugs x
Scarlet on at 12:33 pm
I have only been able to do what I have done today because of Nat’s post and the subsequent posts from all you amazing ladies. This is possibly the first time I have ever set a boundary. Today I have removed myself from a painful pattern. I have said I will no longer tolerate lies and let downs and the way I will do that is by not being around to hear the lies.
This has been one of the most painful things I have done because I normally wait and wait for others to determine whether I stay in a relationship or not, only by the fact that they want me. Today I have said, that even if I love this man, I have to look after myself first and foremost. So as much as I am in pain, I am feeling just a little bit proud of myself. And I would not have been able to do it without the support of this forum. Thank you so much ladies.
- selfhelpgal on at 11:35 pm
  
  @scarlet
  
  YOU GO GIRL. You are stronger than you think. You made it through a big step. You are here, you are setting boundaries, you are capable of more than you know.
  keep up the great work
rana on at 12:45 pm
Both suffering for love and being addicted to a relationship has been romanticized by our culture. From popular songs to opera, from classical literature to harlequin romances, from daily soap operas to critically acclaimed movies and plays, we are surrounded by countless examples of unrewarding immature relationships that are glorified and glamorized. Over and over again we are instructed by these cultural models that the depth of love can be measured by the pain it causes and that those who truly suffer, truly love. When a singer croons about not being able to stop loving someone even though it hurts so much, there is, perhaps because of the sheer force of repeated exposure to this point of view, something in us that accepts that what the singer expresses is the way it should be.
We accept that suffering is a natural part of love and that the willingness to suffer for the sake of love is a positive trait than a negative one.
We need to be aware of the damaging shortcomings of our societal view of love and to resist the shallow and self-defeating immaturity in personal relationships that it glamorizes. We need to consciously develop a more mature way of relating than what our cultural media seem to endorse.
- PurpleLily on at 7:02 pm
  
  @ rana : Wish there was a ‘like’ button because this is spot on! Remind me of Rihanna’s ‘hopeless place’…NO love should not be found in a hopeless place, why are you even proclaiming that it is love and somehow this hopeless place makes love flourish. Shocking!
  
  Truth is, tv or radio or movies dont seem to display what a healthy relationship looks like or feels like. And unfortunately, people assume that what they should look for is the (very very unhealthy) spark and passion and push-pull-pull, rather than consistency and a mature concept of respect and care.
  
  Good one, rana!
- Sophia on at 10:30 pm
  
  Hi rana
  Love your perspective and insight. Your expressed views on this subject is one I share.
- Colee on at 12:07 am
  
  Yes! I agree with this completely too. Not even just in the modern day but always, like Cathy and Heathcliff, that relationship was beyond bad, and Jane and Mr.Rochester ! not only is she the other woman but he also drips her information and I wonder if it says anything that lots of people love wuthering Heights and Jane Eyre (me included), now I’m thinking I should maybe stick to Pride and Predjudice = ) xx
teachable on at 1:28 pm

Oh EllyB! I just about PUKED at the mere thought of that jerk off nerdy guy!! He sounds GROSS!!! If you ever so much as even THINK of ever giving him the time of day again I am tying you to a bed post with a copy of something wholesome to wash your brain with by Naomi Wolfe or someone!!! Yuk!!! From now on I shall consider it a sign of growth when you bare your teeth a little!! Being taught to be ‘nice & accommodating’ is a very common ploy used by child abuse perps to gain compliance. That was the problem with me. I was NEVER compliant & I sure as hell did not play ‘nice’. Instead, I fought BACK (which meant of course that I copped it even more). I did not care though. I SWORE that I would NEVER allow myself to be broken down by my abusers & I thus steadfastly remained DEFIANT until my parting day, when finally I was free. Now I’ll bet they are regretting the day they picked this former little girl as a target – because I have taken complaints of their abuse to the highest office in the land (that’s right after taking my complaints to three SENATE COMMITTEES, I then was able to access the Prime Minister – who issued ppl like myself A FORMAL APOLOGY for what were we forced to endure! I am now involved with an advocacy group which after I laid much earlier ground work in terms of local human rights law, is currently in the process of having our collective complaint ie there are many of us who essentially experienced the same things under similar circ*mstances, put to the United Nations!) Although of course I speak of very serious matters I think it’s freakin hilarious! Mess with me you SOB’s & you WILL pay is the message (& yep my compensation case for closely related matters involving a diff perp is in play as we speak!) Seriously EllyB when it comes to abuse, don’t bother with being or even APPEARING ‘nice’! Who gives a rats freaking ass?! Get EVEN instead (as is your right under the law wherever you live)… T 😉
teachable on at 1:36 pm
PS reading that post about that guy EllyB just makes me want to punch him in the friggin head!! Grrr!!! Dirty gross man!! Please stay well AWAY from him & his ilk. I’m VERY happy to see you have seen through his disgusting ruse!!! People like us much earlier in our stages of development are sitting ducks for pigs like him. I know I had two of them who got a hold of me before I wised up also. To this day they are most fortunate that I lead a very responsible life. Otherwise lets just say there would be no-where safe for EITHER of them to hide (due to damage they have managed to inflict upon not only me when I was a young vulnerable homeless underage teenage girl but sadly also my son)…
- Ellyb on at 8:36 pm
  
  We broke up more than a decade ago. Anyway, I still seem to consider this experience something of a “gold standard” of a relationship (because it was my only “relationship” that lasted for more than a few months), I keep thinking “maybe he was as good as it gets”, and “maybe that was the only healthy guy I’ve ever been with and I blew it!”
  
  Back then I believed that I “had” to make some guy, ANY guy “last”. I wanted to prove I could “make” at least one single person in the world “put up” with me simply by “working hard enough on myself”.
  
  With every new guy I dated later on, I always expected to do worse than I did with him. And so far, this is what happened (and this is why I more or less refrained from dating several years ago).
  
  He was awkward, plain, wore weird clothes, didn’t do well academically and (apparently) didn’t get the sex he wanted from most of the women he was interested in. I keep thinking: Wouldn’t a “less flawed” guy consider me even less “worthy” and demand even more sex and more housework and less “whining” as a compensation for my worthlessness? And how would I be able to handle THAT???
  
  Considering the way my parents, my grandparents, my schoolmates and my “Christian” schoolteachers treated me, it seemed only logical to expect an outcome like this. PTSD and all that aside, I simply didn’t KNOW better at that time.
  
  It sounded almost insane to me to expect something better from life than what I’ve experienced during my entire childhood! After all, shouldn’t we “learn for life” while we are kids? Shouldn’t we tap into the “lessons” of our childhood whenever facing adult challenges?
  
  I still find it hard (almost impossible) to believe I can expect more than what I had with im.
ac magnet on at 2:43 pm

It’s funny how you can live something and not know it and then you see it – in black and white, no holds barred – and there is no more denial. This is my last “relationship”. He had no actual interest in one – he even said so a couple of times in the beginning but of course I didn’t listen, I was so fabulous he would change his mind – so I dove in with both feet. For the first few weeks, he couldn’t pursue me hard enough. It was magic and perfect and all that. Then, little by little, it wasn’t. I knew it, I saw it but I kept making excuses, kept hoping the nice guy would come back. By the end (and it was only months later), my self-esteem was completely gone, I hated myself for what I had put up with and become, trying to get him to love me.

And, like you said, if I sit back and think about it, I didn’t love him. I didn’t even like him. I knew he was cruel and unloving and abusive and controlling – god, was he controlling – but I so wanted him to love me the way he seemed to in those first few weeks.

It is humiliating to write this, to say it out loud (to the extent you can on the internet). Within days, I was completely structuring my life around him. I wouldn’t go out for fear of missing his call. If he did call (and never in advance), I would drop what I was doing and run to him. That’s not love, that’s not even a relationship, its slavery and I let him do it. NO, actually I did it to myself.

When it ended, I wanted to blame him for everything – he was evil, he was cold – but this site has helped me realize how much of it was me. I signed up for it. I let it happen. By the end, I was chasing him (or the “him” that existed in the beginning).

I was so desperate – I hate that word but its the correct one – that I destroyed myself trying to get a man who didn’t love me and who I didn’t love or respect or even like, all so I could feel loved, or even lovable.

A nice guy might have seen my desperation and walked away early. Only an assclown stays and helps you drive yourself into the ground, only to walk away at the end as if he had nothing to do with it.
- PurpleLily on at 6:53 pm
  
  @ ac magnet : Looking back, I should have walked when my exEUM said he was going on a date with someone else the day after he had had a 7-hour date with me – who does that?! (answer now: only someone who looks to collect attention from multiple women). Was he interested?…well like yours, he blew hot when I said Im happy to stop seeing him as him multiple dating is disrespectful towards me. Gosh, never know what they are thinking!
  
  Please dont hate yourself, he is a worthless human being with no decency or kindness. We all want to be loved but it is upto us to not want it “too much” with anyone, esp.EUMs, because its like running towards a fast speeding train!
  
  He is a LOT to blame, normal people dont do what these morons do but like so many here, we need to learn to opt out at the very first instance that a red (they shockingly seemed amber in my head, lol) flag goes up. We owe it to ourselves to take care of the wonderful and special beings we are.
  
  You ARE lovable – all you need to do is know that and remind yourself of that all the time. I thank you for your post, there is such honest in it, it is so hard to accept the things we wrongly contributed to a destructive relationship – I love how strong you are because you can talk about it with such clarity. Sending massive hugs!
  - selfhelpgal on at 11:54 pm
    
    @purplelily
    
    superb post, great insight. And I agree with it so much. LOL for serious. Just watched a Saturday night live skit where one the characters kept saying “for serious”, thanks for the laugh
    
    @ac magnet
    you are not alone, I am sure many of us have done similar. I am a rather independent woman, with a ton of friends, and I still did many of the things you did, just trying to be loved, get love, make someone love me, stay in things that were terribly bad for me, making up so many excuses for these men. I obviously had no respect for myself, and wanted to give people a chance to change, or change them. Sometimes it takes years and years of bad dating patterns to get us here, where we look at self and say “no more” or we say “i learned a lot and want better.” I have learned over the years that change is possible, I slip backwards, a lot, but in my growth there are baby steps. I have spent a lot time waiting for the “nice guy” or guy I met in the beginning to be that same guy. Not worth waiting for. And I did date nice men, they were just EUM’s mostly. Difference between someone being an AC and a decent guy just not being ready or knowing what he wants. Still, you will know in your gut if he feels AC-sih. lol. I still make bad decisions, but usually it’s with better men, if that makes sense. Trust your gut and you will start feeling it….when an AC comes around, you will know. You are lovable and worthy as you are. (HUGS)
    - grace on at 12:41 am
      
      selfhelp
      be careful of grading availability. He is either in it or he’s not.
      You are either up for a committed relationship or you’re not. I believe that if we’re constantly bumping up against EUMs, even “nice” ones, that we’re not as up for it as we think we are. What we have in common with these “nice” EUMs is our conflict around relationships. I’ve said it before but like speaks to like. If you value your independence, as I used to, it’s very safe to be with men who aren’t threatening to take it away. LDRs, men who disappear for days on end, men who aren’t ready. They’ll never truly require you to step up. All we can do is react, be helpless, maintain our independence/barriers, or end it. None of those things have anything to do with being in a healthy mutual relationship.
      i get that growth takes time and patience but I don’t think we should give ourselves too long a leash. time passes so quick and youth even more so. At some point it really does pay to give yourself the proverbial boot up the arse and force yourself out of your comfort zone. For me, it has paid dividends in all aspects of my life and I thoroughly recommend it.
- cc on at 8:42 pm
  
  yeah, ac magnet-
  purplelily is right. don’t be ashamed, don’t beat yourself up.
  
  any number of us, in fact, probably nearly all of us on BR could tell a story that is essentially identical to yours in any way that is meaningful. more or less, this is what happened with me and my ex-EUM.
  
  but it is amazing that you’re able to admit it, to be so honest. its BRAAAAVE.
  
  and its not all your fault, at ALL. yes, you made your contribution, but so what. honestly, really, so what?!? you’re human, you’re allowed to make mistakes. i know, thinking back on this type of total capitulation to someone else makes you sick – just like the rest of us here.
  
  but its ok. now you see. now you know. if you love yourself now, forgive yourself now, or better, decide that in fact there’s nothing to forgive, you’re a human who wanted love, and you’ve learned a valuable lesson in how to not go about it, and how to choose better for yourself, then you’ll never make that mistake again.
  
  ease up. really. for serious.
sm on at 3:43 pm
The sad thing is that I didn’t even know this was inappropriate behavior until I started reading BR. The last guy I dated started going cold on me and it only took one day for me to realize it instead of several rounds of hot/cold that I usually go through. I basically pushed him into breaking up with me but next time I’ll be the one checking out. It hurt but not near as bad as it did when I let the crap go on and on. Thank You Natalie.
- PurpleLily on at 6:41 pm
  
  @sm : I think it is a learning process for all of us, sm. My previous EUM kept going hot cold for about six months (he was never interested; I was 23, very naive, lenient and giving) until I called him up to break up with him (he didnt even want to meet me to break up!). How horrible it feels when someone treats you like that! My recent EUM, 3 weeks before the bad behaviour showed up and pull him up for it and asked for an explanation – only to have him break up with me (not as lenient, def not naive but still very giving).
  
  I think they cant deal with women who pull them up on the crap they do, recognise what is not ok and are not afraid – good you stayed strong. Im glad it didnt hurt as much but yes, letting it go on completely destroys your self esteem. Good luck!
Confused2 on at 7:33 pm
Hi Everyone
Ok so what is it? What is so hard about making a decision? You either like me or you don’t. I continue to have this problem with my EUM/AC whatever you want to call him. We see each other a lot (at least every other day including weekends) we talk every day, text etc. I will say that I feel he puts up walls and keeps me at a distance. I have known him for a year. All he keeps saying is: “don’t force a relationship, just let it happen” other times he says: “I don’t know what I want” when I ask him. I will say that he is careful about not future faking me too much in fact he hardly ever mentions a future, hardly ever expresses any kind of emotions, in fact I question whether or not I should or could even hold his hand. I don’t know if he is scared, waiting for the right moment or what. I certainly don’t feel he has someone else. I don’t see him texting anyone or his phone ringing off the hook or anything. He is certainly very avoidant with every1 it seems. He hardly has friends and it seems he keeps everyone (including his family at arm’s length). I have a great time with him and we are great “FRIENDS”. I feel he has a huge problem with intimacy and trusting people. I try to be patient, understanding but at the end of the day I don’t want to feel as if im walking on eggshells. We are intimate (sometimes) but even this is hard as he withholds and it yes most of everything is on “his terms”. I do most of the initiating in terms of affection (even just a kiss) and while he doesn’t pull away- it would be nice if he initiated it as well. I do feel there is a sense of needing/wanting to have this control and as im sure many of you know. It doesn’t feel too good at the receiving end when all you want to do is form a connection with someone, be emotional, and try to get close. I will say that when I pull away or start to distance myself, I get the old push/pull game. He starts to panic I guess and starts calling more, being nice etc. But then when I reciprocate again (or am under his control as NML put it) the cycle starts again. Aside from this being perplexing, I just don’t know what to do or what to think of it. Its hard to speak to him about “us” or anything having to do with emotions as he tends to shut down and not be able to handle the conversation or simply gets annoyed with “so many questions” as he likes to put it.
Can someone help me to understand from an outside perspective?
- Fearless on at 11:54 pm
  
  Confused2
  My ex EUM initiated quite a lot of cuddles or hugging; in fact he didn’t always like me initiating affection with him; I think he liked to be in control of the cuddles, for how long they happened and where and when! He was the cuddle police! But a lot of what you say sounds very similar to my ex. What can I tell you? I did similar nonsense with him for ten years before I finally gave in and gave up. If you’re up for that then keep going as you are, if not, get out. It doesn’t get any better, so don’t expect it to get any better and you won’t be disappointed. You’ll be miserable, but not disappointed.
- grace on at 12:28 am
  
  confused
  there is no mystery here. he is a typical EUM. And you are delusional if you think you are having a great time and are friends.
- Little Star on at 8:16 am
  
  Confused2, I think it is TOO much work with him, honestly! It is only a year, but you already feeling like “walking on eggshells”…I read in one of the Natalie’s posts that normal and loving relationships should be easy and enjoyable. Do you feel this way?
Jeb on at 10:31 pm

Have been reading Baggage Reclaim for years, since ending an 8 year emotionally abusive relationship many years ago, so firstly a massive thanks Nat for all you do, you really do help women struggling in the relationship arena. Thank you.

I got involved with someone over a year ago now, after 4 years single, thought it would be good for me and it was but he also was very hot and cold, not as bad as some of the other experiences I’ve read, he did at least make contact nearly every day after a while but then after a good time together I could quite easily not hear from him for a day or two, and inconsistency is inconsitency, no matter how good or bad! I finally ended it 10 days ago and am in day 10 of no contact, he at least did give me explanations for his inconsistency but still, hot and cold in any guise is not good for the soul. And surprisingly once I started calling him out on his inconsistency etc., things just went downhill fast

I can see though in hindsight I accepted and put up with it as I was scared of getting too committed again after such a horrible experience with the emotionallly abusive ex and can see that’s another reason why the dynamic played out so long. Plus I had fears of being on my own again and also told myself it’s just practice man you can deal with it. There was a point where he got quite keen and then I backed off, which then just created more and more inconsistency, so in effect both of us were as bad as each other, though he much worse. Still at the end of the day I feel for him and would have been willing to give a relationship a proper go and yet he wasn’t, so I ended it. At least I know I will never put up with inconsistency again and hopefully I’ve also healed my own inconsistencies for any future relationship I may get involved in. Here’s hoping anyways.

It’s a horrible thing to go through and I’m glad I’m off the rollercoaster of wondering if or when I would hear from or see him again and it’s sad it’s had to work out this way. But onwards and upwards!

Good luck to everyone going through this, it’s hard and I think you can only get off the merry go round when you are truly ready, I can’t believe it took me a year plus to get there but finally I’m here and have no regrets because I’ve learnt an awful lot and also did enjoy our time together. I think after going through anything like this you have to take a good hard look at yourself and try and understand why you put up with it and then learn from it and move on, easier said thand done though, I know! But at least Baggage Reclaim is here to help you to try and figure it all out.
Awakened on at 11:53 pm

@confused2 he’s spelling it out LOUD and Clear love. He is unavailable. He has nothing to offer you. See the signs cause they are staring you right in the face. You have to initiate a kiss?? How does that look a woman having to ask for a kiss? Asking for intimacy. Big ass red flag!! He shuts down when you want to just confront issues. The only perspective you need is perspective on doing exactly what you need to do and that is walk…. He hardly ever mentions a future… because he doesn’t see YOU in it. He hardly has any friends because he’s a hermet. If he’s incapable of forming any kind of emotional or platonic friendship how can he form a relationship or connection with you.? One red flag after another!! This guy is a ticking time Bomb and you will save yourself in the long run if you opt out first. Yes it will hurt; yes you will feel it; but I can guarantee that you wil be much better off. The longer u stay analyzing his every little action and wondering why X,Y,Z ; the Worser it’s going to GET before this ticking time BOMB explodes.
Awakened on at 12:09 am
@confused2 I can remember when I was with my EUM. We were on a three day weekend date and I remember myself (in my lost mind) trying to feel that connection; reaching for his hand. He actually held mine for about a few seconds; and me texting him( he’s sitting right next to me) “a kiss would be nice”. Now I think back about how could a beautiful me be asking this low life scum bag for a kiss? I’d been better off kissing a toad. Can you imagine how desperate that made me look and feel? First time I ever did that in my life. When we are in dillusion and fantasy world we are totally blind sighted. Just wanted to share that. Been there; done it but I vow to never stoop that LOW again.
- cc on at 4:29 pm
  
  awakened, confused2-
  ditto here on the physical affection front. as the relationship with the ex-EUM progressed over its very short life, the conditions under which he would kiss me became rarer and more specific. by the end, there was no such thing as foreplay anymore, he wouldn’t even kiss me in bed. ???? why the HELL did i stand for this?
  
  oh wait – i didn’t!!! we broke up!
  
  confused2 – the sex sucks, right? its ok, you can admit it.
cc on at 11:40 pm

confused2-
i can hear everyone’s keyboard clattering away from here, but i’ll put in my 2 cents anyway.

but brace, honey. this will hurt, though i don’t mean it to. i’m sorry in advance. but you asked, and i’m saying this for your own good.

where do i even start … this guy SCREAMS strange, controlling and unavailable. oh, and anti-social. oh, and intimacy issues. oh, and flat affect (unemotional) – what’s up with that??? does he actually have asperger’s?

and you scream codependent. you need to change this. this situation is totally unhealthy, and i want you out of it.

1- you have to LISTEN when a guy tells you who he is and ACT on the information: ““don’t force a relationship, just let it happen” other times he says: “I don’t know what I want”” – you shouldn’t be confused, confused. he’s already told you. he doesn’t want / can’t have a relationship. but he’s willing to let you stick around for the attention and the occasional (on his terms) intimacy. you do NOT hang around trying to change the situation. trust me. you don’t. if a guy can’t/isn’t giving you want you want? you LEAVE.

2- he’s a cold clam who doesn’t even have friends. why would you want to bother prying him open? do you think you’ll really find a pearl inside? trust me, you won’t. this guy has wicked issues and he’s TOTALLY EUM, completely closed up. sorry, he’s not going to change.

3- guys like to chase. but you’re chasing him. that makes it easy for him to be his weirdo, disconnected, really abnormal-sounding self. but it doesn’t matter anyway, even though you’re making this strategic “error”, he’s still odd and remote – nothing you did caused that – he came this way. and will undoubtedly stay this way.

4- he’s not even NICE to you, unless he’s playing push/pull. what’s he bringing to you? he’s not paying attention to you, doesn’t share himself with you, doesn’t make you happy, doesn’t cherish you, doesn’t want anything from you except on his terms “Its hard to speak to him about “us” … “so many questions” as he likes to put it” ….

confused, why do you even like this guy? you’re chasing after something that is not only not even there, its not something he can give you. you think if you get his “love” (i’m convinced he cannot love) that you’ll win.

honey, there’s NOTHING to win here. you should already be gone.

you already know everything you need to know, you have all the information. there is no further analysis that will give you any answers worth having.

i’m sorry. he sucks. break up with him. and learn to love yourself so you will not chase unavailable any more. what you can give yourself and what you can get from a loving, capable partner are WAAAAAAY better than this guy’s best day.

BR reading for you:
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/how-to-spot-emotionally-unavailable-men/
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/advice-help-me-understand-how-my-emotionally-unavailable-man-has-been-treating-me/
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/do-emotionally-unavailable-men-change/
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/does-emotionally-unavailable-equal-hes-just-not-that-into-you-why-do-we-care/
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/how-to-attract-emotionally-unavailable-men/
- PurpleLily on at 2:59 am
  
  @ cc : So so true! I can see so much of my exEUM in him. The controlling the cuddles and intimacy/sex, was socially anxious, didnt have many friends (and the few he did, well,sounded like they had no concept of what was right/wrong), hot cold etc.
  
  Great advice given to you the confused2, please get out. If you stay, your self esteem will dip severely every single day. Thats what their awful behaviour and coldness does to you. Please leave and you will learn to love yourself and find someone healthy and happy, who will adore you. Good luck, stay strong dear girl.
  
  (@ cc : dont mean to steal the thunder away from confused2’s post but can you please tell me why you feel chasing a guy is a strategic error? Why is it considered so wrong to initiate communication or text everyday (as long as you dont go overboard by continuing to do so even when they dont reply)? Please help me understand and should I be changing this particular bit about myself…god, my stomach just sank as I said that)
  - grace on at 11:54 am
    Purple
    I’ve done a lot of initiating with the man I’m seeing. And so has he. I can’t say who’s done the most. it could be me, or maybe it just feels that way as I used to be the passenger. I could draw up a spreadsheet, with formulae and appropriate weightings or just not keep tabs on it and enjoy myself.
    A friend of mine – who has been married for over twenty years – said to me, when I was bemoaning the fact that the man hadn’t asked me out “men are dumb, you have to tell them what to do.” My sister, who has been married for twenty years told me to take the initiative. “I don’t know why he hasn’t asked you out. Why don’t you just suggest something, at least then you’ll know!”
    Some men do like to chase, no doubt about it, but YOU can still decide what’s right for YOU. The man is not a chaser. It took him six months to tell me he liked me. He’s can be quite tentative about suggesting things to do. “What do you want to do?” “I’ll let you decide” “How about this..?” He is happy to sing solo, enjoys public speaking, is confident on the football pitch. So, it’s not about being “shy”. Maybe some men are just not that confident around women, especially women they like? Or they don’t want to be pushy? Gasp.
    Ditch what you think men or women should or shouldn’t do. He can still be a man and you can still be a woman without having to follow a lot of outmoded rules.
    The man who hurt me the most is the one who chased me the hardest and heaviest. I am very sceptical that chasing proves anything other than a sense of entitlement, a big ego and a preference for seduction rather than getting to know someone in a mutual, respectful manner.
    PS He did book the restaurant and pay for that first date. I’m not wearing the trousers, honest!
    - PurpleLily on at 1:16 pm
      
      @ Grace : I cried. I cried reading this. The relief!!
      
      Love these women in your life! I have had most friends (female and male) tell me that I am crazy for initiating and not playing “precious”. My response has always been that I want to be in a mature relationship, where he and I are both free to be who we are. And I dont want to feed his competitive ego where he thinks I am not “good enough/too easy” because ‘OMG she actually TEXTS and CALLS me!’ And that if ‘he doesnt have to WORK for me, he wont appreciate me’…what is he..emotional personality of a 2.5yr old playing in the sandbox? DAMMIT none of this makes any sense!! LOL!
      
      I am secure enough to contact him, to make plans yet I know and can sense when to let him do the work. But I refuse to play games and follow rules that prevent me for being who I am (which is a pretty awesome shade of Purple!).I need for him to appreciate me for everything I am, just the way I am happy to learn and understand him. Hiding who I am, I would feel like this big part of me has been killed.
      
      I was making a list of things I need to change in myself when I am ready to date again (flags, stronger boundaries etc) and this one point made me sad. Friends said “dont contact the man at all.” and my heart said “but that is not who I am, I dont want to be something I am not…it cant possibly be that wrong/a deal breaker?”. But now I am confident that I need to follow my heart, enjoy and not maintain an excel sheet.
      
      Grace, thank you. From the bottom of my heart. I am smiling.
      - cc on at 3:45 pm
        
        purplelily, grace-
        to be clear, i’m not suggeting game playing, and purplelily, i didn’t mean to panic you. but i am saying there are certain biological drivers that can govern male/female interactions.
        
        as in grace’s case, i have heard examples of women successfully initiating the romantic aspect of a relationship. but in every case i’ve heard, as in grace’s, the women put some thought into “why isn’t he initiating more with me” and concluded, after thinking about it, that what the guy needed was a green light, so she gave him one and he responded.
        
        but not every guy is like this. some guys need to, in the early stages, when they don’t know you, be the initiator. to take that away from him can kill his interest – trust me, i’ve seen this happen up close. you have to decide which situation you’re in on an individual basis. then, once a relationshp actually forms (notice in grace’s case, a relationship already existed) it all evens out.
        
        i’m suggesting that, by and large, we need to be careful that we 1) are choosing partners correctly and 2) that we maintain our independent lives and do not seem too available to them. my point to confused2 (sorry c2) was that she is just laaaaaying herself out for a guy that doesn’t deserve her in the first place. that is a tactical error that (sorry c2) lowers her standing in the guy’s eyes.
        
        maintain your stature. keep your self-respect. have a life. make him value you because you value yourself. that’s all i’m saying.
        
        PurpleLily on at 10:45 pm
        
        @ cc : Thank you for your response and for explaining. I understand that we need to pick the right partner and have our own lives – no doubt about this at all. I think I got confused because I though you mean the way (or one of) to display self-respect and value is to avoid the ‘strategic error’. Got it now!
        
        I do still wish to understand why we need to hand over all the control to a guy, even in the initiating stage…Just because he is biological trained to do so? Ive always thought that good man with his head correctly on his shoulder will look beyond that to appreciate me. And if he loses interest just because the women displays a little bit of individuality and control…well oh well! Atleast for me, if I take no control initially, I know for sure that I dont really feel much for him.
        
        Maybe I am stubborn (and stupid)…I wonder if I am the only one who feels this way out there.
        
        Thanks again cc!
formerlyrecoveredloveaddict on at 1:30 am

I have been reading this website for a few months. Like many of you, i found it researching about EUM’s. This is the first time i have commented on an article. I have been with the same man for 23 years, married 21 of those years. I have a former history of “relationships” with EUM’s and have been an EUW myself. I have been sober almost 25 years in AA (still attend meetings) and have done a lot of step work on childhood issues and father issues. I have also recognized myself as a love addict and read many books on the subject, gotten therapy, and also, done step work on them.
I have recently found myself emotionally involved with someone I work with who i originally pegged as an EUM (I now think he is an AC also). I don’t know how i wound up involved with him. I have not slept with him (thankfully!), but we have kissed several times. At first, I was not at all interested and actually found him very arrogant and egotistical. I started giving him a hard time and would cut him down every chance i got. What i didn’t realize was that I had become a challenge to him. He started heavily pursuing me, coming on to me, and complimenting me. i remained guarded for a while because i knew he flirted with other women at work, but i admit to enjoying the attention. Then somewhere along the line i decided to start “playing the game” with him and started to play hard to get, just to see if I could do it because with my former “Great Obsession” i was unable to. To me it was just a game to see if i could get him to keep chasing me, it was just something to make my boring job more fun to be at, and to boost my self esteem (I had lost my job and am working a dead end job). In any event, it has resulted in much him chasing me, me chasing him, him blowing hot then cold, me ignoring him, me coming to my senses and vowing not to continue the charade, only to get sucked back in. I would have never have thought I could have gotten involved in a mess like this, especially being married. I have never done anything like this since I have married. Natalie speaks much about the OW, but nothing on the married woman with a single man. i am thankful, actually, that he is an EUM/AC because I don’t know how much further I would have gone otherwise. As it stands, I know he is not interested, although it has been painful to realize that it has all been a farce. I have not been texting him, though it would be much easier if I didn’t see him at work because he affects me so much sometimes. I find myself sucked in and I don’t even know it until he starts to run cold and i am hurting. I am beginning to see I am just like him ( the unrecovered me is anyway), but not when i work my AA program. i am considering therapy because this mess has made be aware of how much I am M.I.A in my marriage. Anyway, I wanted to weigh in on this post. i am so grateful, as many of you are, to have found this site. It saved me from a full- on affair with an AC. Thank you, Natalie and all of you who share on this post!
jasmine on at 4:27 am

i have developed a pro’s and cons list to help me deal with Mr EUM who disappeared on 4 months ago without word and according to facebook, is in a relationship with a girl much younger than me (20) . im 30 and he;s 27.

pros’s—
a good kisser
good in bed
honest to me about his ‘player’ character, yet i persisted
occasional romantic gestures
apologetic/guilty/told me he didnt want to hurt me but a con as he didnt change his actions.

con’s—-
too much bullsh*t/drama
lack of loyalty
excuses
lies
cheats (well technically as he never ended it officially with me months ago)
did not make the effort to take me out appropriately
hot/cold behaviour
always late
was a religious person supposedly, but showed a lack of religion
lack of morals/values
no integrity
false promises
no effort to change his ways
too many ‘sorries’
unemotional
does not have it in him to attempt a decent relationship with a woman
thrives on casual encounters /no commitment
immature
can’t deal with a ‘real’ woman (me), therefore chases ‘girls’
disappears without a word
player
never ‘paid’ for anything when we went out
- PurpleLily on at 11:17 am
  @ jasmine : I hope you have that list under your pillow to remind of how wise and blessed you are that you got out – I cant imagine a man with even one or two of those cons turning into a prince. I know it took a look of soul searching and facing tough feeling to get this list done – good on you. Dont give up, keep at NC and you will find someone who has 100s of pros and will respect, care, trust and love you to bits!
  - jasmine on at 2:25 am
    
    thAnks purplelily, i shall revisit this list everyday and even add to it
NeedsomeAir on at 6:38 am
Let me give you my story then you can tell me if this is blowing hot/cold. i have been dating for the past 8 months.the relationship of late just feels draining. You know that feeling of you’ve given it your all and now u just need to be you. My bf is kind and generous to me, but when it comes to emotions he is selfish. We do alot of things his way. He believes we dont need to have sex that often so we resort to having it once a week, and once he c*ms. thats the end of the session. He doesnt even ask if am ok. I selflessly gave him my car for the past 3 months coz his was at the garage. I dont mind this, but what i do mind is having to be the one to take the car to the garage after he is uses it. He bumped it and all he said was oops sorry!! Another thing i have had it with is being asked to leave the house when his housemate (currently in a 7 year rship with 2 kids) needs to bring gals on the side, apparently because i make him uncomfy (rather he thinks i will tell his gal).
He has his positives like we go for dinner at least once a week, he texts me goodnight, buys me flowers. But the negatives seem to outweigh the positives. is he hot or cold? am i hallucinating that am being put in the backseat of his life? Please someone advise
- Tanya Z. on at 2:46 pm
  
  You say you feel drained. Not a good sign. How, exactly is he generous? Paying for dinner once a week, buying flowers, texting you — that’s not all that much, considering that he doesn’t care about your sexual pleasure and that he’s not appreciative or responsible about using your car. I also think it’s a red flag that he is aiding and abetting his friend’s cheating. It means that he doesn’t consider cheating to be wrong — so what would stop him from cheating on you, if he met someone he fancied?
- Lilian Lauderdale on at 9:24 pm
  
  My first inclination is to say that the negative behaviors he exhibits are unacceptable. However, I have been in similar situations where I have not expressed that these things bother me and then let it build inside me. Natalie has said that we are not here to “teach” someone how to treat us with respect – and I 100% agree. But if you feel that this person does have genuine values I would suggest talking to him first about how you feel (that is if you haven’t already). If he is unwilling to hear you out and make you feel comfortable (especially during sex) then that is your answer.
  
  Also, the roommate issue sounds extremely uncomfortable. Does he leave with you when you are asked to leave? Because he should or tell his roommate you are NOT leaving. He obviously can’t control what his roommate does, but he can control how and what his roommate dictates to you.
  - NeedsomeAir on at 5:57 am
    @Lilian, its true it gets super uncomfy. But i guess on Monday i just had it. I cannot be his girlfriend but am asked to leave because his dodgy housemate wants to bring over a girl. He needs to grow a spine and stop putting me in the backsit like am not a priority and his excuse that he has to consider his housemate is just a wagon of BS.I am his girlfriend and i SHOULD be a priority. so i decided to back off. not just to have a breather but to just prove a point that i have had it and shall not take rubbish like that. I got my car back, asked him to send money for its service and killed all contact. It took him 8 months to convince me to date him, now he needs to stop sleeping on the job and style up. So am doing the no contact rule…umm. What do you think?
    - Lilian Lauderdale on at 4:40 pm
      
      NeedsomeAir – I think you are incredibly strong and courageous to be able to know what you want, set a boundary, and not accept anything less. I agree with you 100% that you MUST be a priority, especially over his roommates poor behavior. Seriously!???!
      
      In my first post I absolutely wasn’t telling you stick around and accept his behavior (so I hope that’s not what it sounded like). I was more or less trying to say that I have been in situations where I have expected the guy to read my mind when things could have been resolved if I simply stated how I was feeling or what I needed. Problem always was that when I did that those needs were met with resistance and my feelings were deemed wrong.
      
      So good for you. You deserve way better and he needs to man up and get his priorities straight.
      - NeedsomeAir on at 8:42 am
        
        @ Lillian – So guess what ..am pregnant!! found out yesterday.am excited. but i will wait for the man to man up. Not even going to disclose the pregnancy.
Georgie on at 6:51 am
I am attracted to unavailable men also. The last man I saw, I thought was a responsible kind type and I was challenging myself to go out with someone who might be good for me. Well I should have known he was unavailable b/c I was sexually attracted to him. He appears to be a good man but I think he might be unavailable. I have a problem. I am also unavailable. I dream about having a relationship and getting married. However, I am 44 years old, never married no kids. I wish I would have had a more normal life of marriage and kids etc. I get bored with men who are good for me. Have any of you been able to kick this? I want someone to really love me before I die!
- Little Star on at 8:44 am
  
  Georgie, I am in the same board…I am a bit younger than you, divorced 6 years ago (no kids), and all these time I was attracting ACs, when nice available men approached me, I freaked out! I know in my heart that I am EUW. I think we need to be ready and work in ourselves first (no idea how!)… I am also wondering what I was doing wrong and why I just did not “grab” an available man, who wanted me, why I kept chasing Assclowns?!
- grace on at 10:13 am
  georgie
  *raises hand*
  I’m 47 and hadn’t been on a date for six years before I started seeing the man.
  Everyone says it, even the purveyors of dodgy relationship advice, but you must get happy first. Be happy with your life as it is without a husband and kids. When you marry you won’t be single again. You won’t be able to spend your time as you wish, flirt without wondering if you should, take up the whole bed, buy shoes and handbags without someone raising an eyebrow, just eat toast for dinner when you can’t be bothered to cook, exercise in the living room, watch what you like on tv. Enjoy all of that wholeheartedly. Make new friends, reconnect with old ones, commit to your job even if you consider it beneath you, and start new activities. I don’t care what we protest, I believe that every FBG has a life that isn’t quite full enough, leaving an empty space for any man that comes along and crowbar his way in.
  We don’t do these things to attract a good man but the bonus is that a good man is attracted by it. The man I’ve started seeing wasn’t primarily attracted to me by beauty, or by sexual chemistry (if he was he hid it well!) but rather by my maturity, eloquence and intelligence. I would not have been able to display those qualities if I wasn’t at heart content with life and myself. I would have been attracting the wrong kind of man, the ones who “smell” an opportunity. The ones looking for a woman who jumps at a compliment, gets hooked on ambiguous behaviour, who finds blowing hot exciting and finds “steady” to be boring.
  It’s lovely knowing when I will see him next, that when he says he will do something, he does it, who remembers to text (no sexting or dodgy stuff) and call. Is it exciting? No. Thank God for that (literally, I met the man at church).
  Change what you like, it’s not about hammering yourself into a different person but fulfilling yourself and not looking for a man to do it. You look for a man who will add to your life and, here’s the best bit, you add to his life. Your genuine self not some caricature of what society – or you -thinks a woman should be.
  If all of that seems a bit vague, at least hold off the sex for three months, or longer.
  Take it more slowly. We equate our need, fantasy and willingness to overlook every red flag with commitment, it’s the opposite of commitment. The only thing you’re committing to is a lot of fluff that exists mainly in your head. You can’t commit to someone you don’t know and that takes time. Commit to the discovery phase, of taking one day, or one week at a time, don’t fastforward yourself, let it unfold and breathe. There’s no need to panic or force an outcome. If he’s the keeper you’ll have the rest of your life to enjoy it.
  - Fearless on at 11:10 am
    
    Great comment Grace; great advice. So true, so true…
Scarlet on at 8:41 am
I am feeling so sad and weak today. Yesterday I was feeling a little proud of myself but today it has sunk in that I have really said goodbye. I feel so much pain, cannot stop crying and am trying to perform in my job. When will this feel better?
- Tulipa on at 10:33 am
  
  Scarlett I’m sorry you are having a bad day.
  It takes time and effort for it to go away.
  I mean effort in being kind to yourself not rushing yourself to be feeling something you aren’t ready for yet. If you feel like it isn’t going to end I suggest you seek professional help.
  It maybe what you need to just cry and feel your loss I wrote and wrote and wrote some more it didn’t matter what I said what mood I was in I just poured it all out on paper.
  Do one kind thing for yourself each day and tell yourself its okay to feel loss and that you are better off without him.
- jasmine on at 11:02 am
  
  scarlet :((( im in the same position. im going to see a psychologist on monday. have you thought about going to see someone?
  
  i feel your pain so much 🙁 its sooo very difficult and i wish i had a magic wand to make you feel better and to make everyone else feel better.
  
  do you have any close friends/sisters to speak too. i found that its helped me. i’ve had 3 breakdowns this week and when i do, i call my sister. my sister says to live in reality and the reality is, you can’t stop your life for someone that doesnt care and has moved on. she also asks why i would want someone that doesnt want me and that if i truly loved him as i say and that i believe in freedom of choice, then i need to let him go..
  
  my sister also said knowing the ‘why’s’ is not going to help me, if anything it will make it worse…, why he disppeared, why he’s with her, why i didnt get closure…so many ‘why’s’ that are unanswered and is giving me inner problems. hence the reason im seeing someone.
  
  i suggest you see a counsellor, because i’ve wasted 2 years and more on someone that never really wanted me. im seeing a male psychologist to get a male perspective of things.
  
  i dont know when you are going to feel better..i still dont feel better after many months. healing comes when you let go and its different for everyone. take it one step at a time. please make yourself busy. i find having people around me very beneficial and also reading natalies articles xx
  - PurpleLily on at 9:42 am
    Agh. Here we go. Bad day back again. And Im picking faults in myself and wanting myself to change this and that and this and that. I’ll be happy when this is over and done with. 2 months NC and will stay at it. Just wish the down days werent this heartbreaking. Oh well!
    - Learner on at 3:35 pm
      
      PurpleLily
      Yes, don’t the bad days just suck? But they are growing pains, it’s a healthy sucking, not putting-up-with-EU behaviour sucking. Re-read your post to scarlet below (from yesterday)- you said to her what I was about to say to you! “Stay strong, ride the wave.” Chin up, take care of you. We can do this!
- PurpleLily on at 11:11 am
  
  @ Scarlet : Stay strong, ride the wave. The pain tend to come back in an evil way to remind us about everything that happened. But there is a lot of healing happening even when you feel sad and low. If it helps, I have been feeling the same way the past 2 weeks but am starting to feel a little better (but still, lots and lots of thoughts attacking me.).
  
  Be kind to yourself, you have been thru something that has hurt you badly and will take time. Just try to get thru the day and treat yourself to something nice after work. You will feel better, it will come and go before there will be more better days than sad. And suddenly, one day, there will only be bright days. Dont give up. Big hugs.
- cc on at 3:53 pm
  
  scarlet-
  straight up? its going to take you a couple of months at least to feel better. that’s just how long it takes.
  
  and if this guy really affected you very deeply, it will take longer. this is not your failing. i’m just really now, 6 months after the fact, getting over my ex-EUM with whom i had only a 4 1/2 month relationship. that’s how deeply he affected me.
  
  your job during this time is to take care of yourself, yes, maybe see a therapist, focus on your life and your emotional, physical and mental well-being so you can keep growing.
  
  it will be a bumpy time, but that’s just the nature of the beast. and you are not alone, and you will be ok. honest.
georgia on at 11:58 am
so…I’m trying to figure out why I miss him, when I realize that if I was still tossing him notes I wouldn’t necessarily get any response back because he’s undoubtedly very busy. for one reason or another, y’know. I miss having someone to share my day with, but I could probably accomplish the same thing journaling. how long does it take to stop wanting what you’ve wanted all along (but come to realize you won’t get)?
- PurpleLily on at 12:51 pm
  
  @ georgia : ….perhaps the moment you truly realise that you DESERVE much, much, MUCH better than what this man gave you?
  
  It is ok to miss him. I know just 2 mins ago, I thought of his big, squeezy hugs..how they made me giddly and left me with the biggest smile… And I teared up. I know that it is ok for me to miss him, one day soon I wont be thinking of him, but until then, I wont force myself to feel back to normal or happy. We gave our care and our hearts to these people and got hurt in return, the rejection and the shock takes ages to wear away.
  
  When we are stronger, our question will then be “why did I even miss him??!”
  
  Until then, keep yourself busy, Ive heard journaling is awesome. I keep at what I am doing, learning a new language, cooking for friends, (not having that aweful sinking feeling in my soul) etc. Give yourself heaps of hugs too 🙂
- hopeless on at 2:38 pm
  
  Georgia- I understand completely what you are going through with wanting someone just to share your day with because I am the same way. My ex was the person I spoke to about everything and even though many times he made me feel like he was either to busy to hear or even too busy to care I still needed that validation from him. I hope for myself and yourself that as time goes by and we read these blogs we will get better understanding as to what is going on. I know for myself I still love my ex but I am tired of having to second guess or question what he says.
Confused2 on at 1:54 pm
Thanks everyone for your responses and feedback.
@Grace your comment although harsh, may be true. Perhaps I am delusional & of course that’s part of the reason why I am in this dysfunctional dynamic with an unavailable man. I am sorting through my own dysfunction & trust me, I try hard to remain grounded and in reality. Of course the more answers I find, the more questions arise. Looking at myself in the mirror and coming to terms with my demons is both freeing & binding at the same time. I hope to relieve myself of my own distorted thinking…just not sure when I will fully get there but have faith that someday I will. Every1 else is right. This man does nothing for me. No flowers, no expressions of affection, no real intimacy, no feeling that I am appreciated (& saying “thank you” at times is the best he can do) but yet its feels empty. I’m not sure if he feels emotions but just cant bring himself to acknowledge it & express it or if he simply feels nothing at all and thus is the reaction (or lack thereof) that I witness. Regardless, its is what it is and the bigger question is: Y am I still here? I have tried going cold turkey & that doesn’t work for me. The pain of the withdrawal is much stronger than I can bear. At the advice of a therapist& something I read in a book, some ppl can withdraw & go cold turkey from an “addiction” while others need to be weaned off slowly. I think the latter works best for me albeit im sure many wont agree. For me it helps knowing that he is there and using this time to observe myself, slowly detach, create distance and gain strength to finally be able to let go. I certainly don’t advise nor suggest this as the best option. Its just what works for me in this particular situation. My biggest challenge? Managing the anxiety I feel when he doesn’t reciprocate. I have gone from thinking that there is something wrong with me or something that I have done to seeing that it is an issue with him. At least for me this is progress. To relieve myself of the burden of being the one to blame here takes a load off and helps me to feel good enough to focus on my own unavailability and commitment issues. At times I feel I have even become immune to his NON reactions as they seem to affect me less & less. I don’t know if that is a good thing or a bad thing. Or perhaps I am comfortable in the dysfunction of it all in which case it could cause me to remain stuck even further 🙁
- grace on at 3:54 pm
  Confused
  I’ve been played by men like this. These relationships work for them. They come and go as they please. They call and we jump. We sex them like we’re being paid to.
  It’s not over until you say it’s over. Whether you wean yourself off him for the rest of your life (I know women who’ve been doing it for over ten years), or NC him tomorrow, know that you have to make the decision. You decide. All your analysis, demons, anxiety are your excuses not to make the decision. You would much rather he took responsibility for your life (though I wouldn’t trust him to look after a cactus).
  Yes it does sound harsh but it’s not me causing the pain. I’m a stranger on the internet. It’s him – but you’d rather say it was me so you don’t have to do anything! I’m not insulted, I’m not defending myself but you need to see what the real problem is.
  I know, believe me I really do know, how hard it is but that’s not a sign you should stick with him. It’s a sign to run for your life (or limp out with all bones broken and heal later). You don’t heal while you’re with them. It’s when you’re out. As long as you let them they keep smashing you down.
  - Confused2 on at 5:04 pm
    
    Grace I value your opinions and advice on BR like you wouldnt believe. You have infinite wisdom and i certainly didn’t take your comment as being “bad”. Its the truth, and sometimes that needs to be the cold HARSH truth which is what i meant. I’m not trying to shift the pain, responsibility on you or him or anyone else. The pain is real, this situation is real as is the decision to get out real. I dont agree that im not doing “anything” I am doing the best i can with what i know works for me. Trust me, I am “aware” of what needs to be done and “aware” of how dysfunctional this whole things is and there isn’t a day that goes by that i dont do “something” to help myself get closer to the “exit door”. I do know that you know how hard it is… you are much further along and can see much more than we do and I am grateful for your input here on this site (I always read your comments to others). I educate myself on these types of men and while i agree that analyzing and trying to get to the why of the matter may not matter, because at the end of the day, these men are acting and doing what they are doing and the result is still the same: Im not happy. I come here to get insight, perspective, strength, a place to vent and as a support group. That being said, i have found that in educating myself and in asking “some” questions, it has helped me tremendously to not feel that this is all me (and i by no means am implying that i dont have issues myself). But i feel that we get stuck on the WHAT did i do and get so emotionally stuck there that its even harder to get out. For me, I did and do need to understand that it isn’t love keeping me here, its fear. I certainly know for sure (just by how much progress i have made emotionally) that i will not be here for 10 yrs. I dont believe looking at my demons as an “excuse” to not make a decision but more so, a part of the process of getting there. I dont know, like i said i have tried the cold turkey just to go back running and look like a fool. I am not staying to heal (I know that is not possible while he is still in the picture) I am staying to gather strength because the next time i say “its over, im done” i want it to be real with every fiber in my body and close that door so shut that nothing will be able to get through. I already feel that it is possible and know that it is only a matter of time before i make my “final decision”.
- cc on at 4:35 pm
  
  confused2-
  you’re already on your way to making a plan to get out of this. keep going with that.
  
  you don’t have to remain stuck. but you’re, right, most of what you’re going to confront as you unstick is your OWN wounds, injuries (don’t worry, i won’t say “damage”), and hurts. it will feel like its coming from him, but its really coming from you.
  
  you can do it. make a plan. get resources in place, friends, family, therapists, this blog, other blogs, work, play, hobbies, journaling, meditation, etc. amass an army of support. make a plan, write it down, that you stick to.
  
  i won’t lie, it will be rough. but you can do it!! most of us here have done it. yes, it will hurt like hell. yes, it will be a roller coaster. but it will not last forever, you will heal, you will become stronger, you’ll be a new person, and it WILL be the BEST thing you ever did for yourself.
  
  so don’t be afraid. you’re not alone. you have us. and, most importantly, and you don’t know it yet, but you have YOU.
hopeless on at 2:32 pm
This article is so true. My ex broke up with me 4 months ago after being together for 6 years. The entire 6 years seems now like it was all him blowing hot and cold- when he blew hot or warm everything seemed fine and than when he was cold its like I felt like I had to chase him to come back. Now after 6 years of that I am left feeling like all he is doing is being ice cold towards me now. I spoke to him the other day and tried to understand what had happened that made him want to break up and his answer was “I don’t have to explain myself to you.” I am left feeling almost desperate to get answers so I know what to do with myself. I know that sounds pathetic but its almost like I have been a puppet for years and he was my puppet master he did and said things to get me to react and do whatever and now Nothing. I know I should be happy that he ended it but there is a part of me that feels like is he done or is this still part of his game. I am so very very confused by everything.
- Confused2 on at 4:15 pm
  Ouch! I feel your pain hopeless. Same situation here. He is acting “COLD” right now and im trying a different approach than my normal “panic mode”. It triggers our fight or flight response and our fears of abodonement which is mainly what we are reacting to. If you can keep this in mind, try to remember that we equate this with feelings of “love” and “desire” which really we should view more as the red flags that are letting us know to get out or move on. Its easier said than done of course. I myself am struggling right now with what to do next. He expects me to chase. Which i refuse to do at this point but im not sure if i should wait for him to get in touch and then just be like: You know this isnt for me. I realize you aren’t ready and quite frankly i get nothing out of this and im tired so im done. Or say nothing at all (like he does) because attention is attention and at times i feel that he does this to get a reaction out of me. Its a no win situation… so not even really sure what would be best as the next course of action. What I do know is that this is really unhealthy for us. No one should have to be left guessing or wondering what the heck is going on. We shouldn’t allow ANYONE to have this much control or power over us. Lets try to focus on gaining the strength to not want to continue the cycle. One of us has to get off the merry go round otherwise, round and round it goes again. This isn’t love, its fear. He triggers this in us and instead of focusing on “him” and thinking that its because we love them and miss them, that its really our broken radar and try to see them for who they really are… nothing but a complete waste of space and time. Don’t allow him to control you anymore… take control of yourself, your emotions and focus on being a better you. You will slowly but surely lose interest in him and get tired of the same old same old as well. <<>>
  - titi on at 5:20 pm
    
    Confused2, it’s obvious he doesn’t care.
    
    You really need to shift focus from him (an emotional cripple) to you. You are spending so much time and energy thinking how and when he will react/contact you. That uncertainty is soul destroying, it really is.
    
    “He expects me to chase. Which i refuse to do at this point but im not sure if i should wait for him to get in touch and then just be like: You know this isnt for me. I realize you aren’t ready and quite frankly i get nothing out of this and im tired so im done. ”
    
    You still have a hope that he will change. He won’t. According to your description of him, sounds like a shizoid personality disorder (you explained he is detached from family and friends too). He c-a-n-n-o-t love you. Stop chasing him, trying to squeeze love out of him. It’s humiliating. Stop explaining yourself and back up your values by actually ACTING upon them. You shouldn’t just go around saying “I’m not like that, stop treating me like I am”, you should SHOW him what you want. If you want to be happy, then the solution is to bear short term pain and ditch the emotionally disabled guy. If you want to be misarable for the next x years, you should stay with him. It’s your decision, you have to make it, and you are responsible for your own choices.
    - Confused2 on at 6:51 pm
      I simply dont know what i am so afraid of. I have tears in my eyes as i write this because my head knows what i must do but i dont know why i am so afraid or cant bring myself to completely do it. You are absolutely right that i still hold on to hope and still believe that there is a possibility he can change. I dont know why. At times i feel he does care but doesnt know how to experience, express or even hang on to these emotions at which point it turns more into me wanting to be compassionate and understanding rather than running the other way. I’ve realized that i have these co-dependant tendecies and although knowing is half the battle i have no clue how to change what i feel. I am seeing a therapist, have bought tons of books, read this blog, have even considered going to CODA meetings. Perhaps whats motivating me most is the amount of energy this takes, how much it consumes me how much of my life is being waisted away until i can make a move. I wake up in the morning and force myself to not care, to not think about “HIM” to give myself, my heart, my head and my soul a break. This final move wont and cant come however until i am truly convinced that he wont/cant change isnt capable of love. That perhaps it isn’t that he is hurting me intentionally but it is just a symptom of his own disorder and issues. I get crumbs and im not happy and i hate feeling like i live in limbo all the time. With him withholding, not being able to tell me where we stand, not even being able to talk about “us”. I feel alone in his presence and yet i ask myself, if i am already alone what is the difference if i just break it off? I am still alone… only perhaps much happier. But how do i convince myself that there is no more hope? That he will not change? How do i stop myself from wanting to “fix” and help him? How do “I” get to this point? I figured reading up on EUM, commitment phobia, narcissism etc would help me to better understand to educate myself… is this not a good idea? Now i am doubting myself even more…. im a mess!
      - cc on at 7:56 pm
        
        confused2-
        you stop wanting to “fix” him by starting to fix yourself. but you’re putting this off because:
        
        you’re scared because its easier to believe that he can change, and to sit around waiting for that to happen, than to believe that YOU can change.
        
        you’re scared that you’ll be alone for the rest of your life (you won’t be, truly).
        
        you’re scared because, if you aren’t who you have been, then who are you? who will you be?
        
        you’re scared because you don’t trust you.
        
        you’re scared because, to become someone new, you have to take a step out into … nothingness.
        
        you’re afraid of the nothing. of the void. of the lack of a mirrror, a wall, to tell you who you are, to press against.
        
        you don’t need that mirror. you don’t need that wall.
        
        don’t be afraid of the nothing. SIT in the nothing. be BRAVE.
        
        think of the nothing as a beautiful space that you get to fill however you choose. let it fill you first. then you fill it.
        
        trust me: you will fill that space with you.
        
        will it be hard? yes. will you stumble? yes. but will you recover? YES!!!
        
        even if you:
        – need to spend a month in bed…
        – cry yourself to sleep every night, or on public transportation, or to your friends, for weeks…
        – eat the entire contents of your refrigerator, refill it, and then eat the whole thing again….
        
        this step is WORTH taking. you will learn to trust you. you will find your way.
        
        trust that you will determine your worth, you will start breaking old bad habits and start forming new good ones.
        
        be brave, confused2. let go. take the step.
        
        here, i’m giving you an assignment:
        start by writing a letter to you. pick any part of you who needs to hear from you. tell that part of you everything you have to say to you: your wishes, your fears, your hopes, the promises you want to make to yourself. make it honest. tell the complete truth. listen to yourself. and see what reply you get.
        
        let us know how you feel when you’ve done this.
        
        PurpleLily on at 10:53 pm
        
        @ cc : Awesome response. Very very true. Im going to try the assignment soon, I think it might help a lot of us.
        @c2 : Hang in there, you WILL be ok. It takes a while and there are some very tough moments but on the other side, lies a stronger, happier you. Great words of wisedom from P, Grace, LittleStar. You will get past all this. YOU WILL.
        
        Scarlet on at 10:13 am
        Cc, that is the most amazing post. I am reading it over and over. I want to pin it to my wall. It really resonates with me and my situation now. Wow, you ladies are inspirational.
        
        cc on at 1:55 pm
        
        purple, scarlet (oo, colors!)-
        the fact is that we often have to let go of old bad stuff before we really have solid new better stuff to grab onto. that void can be terrifying.
        
        but that’s ok, its just a matter of time. you won’t float off into the atmosphere. the key is to just stay with yourself, learn to self-comfort. do NOT panic and grab on to something else new and bad. THAT is where we often repeat our mistakes. we are so afraid of the nothing, because we perceive it as dark and annihilating, that we slip back into old habits.
        
        the nothing is not bad. it is a gift.
      - P. on at 9:02 pm
        
        Confused2,
        
        You are doing everything right, but it takes time to “process”. It just takes time, and seeing a therapist is helpful, but one therapist told me it would take the same amount of time regardless. That was rough on me. It took me almost a year to file for divorce, and yes, I was thinking along the lines you are thinking, and I believe some people do need more time because otherwise they would have a nervous breakdown.
      - grace on at 9:42 pm
        
        Confused
        Whether you are in a good relationship, a bad one, married, broken up, choosing a school for your child, looking for a work, this level of analysis and overthinking does not help and you have must do everything in your power to stop. It’s debilitating. Try this:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqWcz3KgxZI
        If you can do these workouts and still obsess, then you’re a fitter person than I am. You need to cut yourself a break, even if it’s just half an hour a day.
        It gets better. When I broke up with the playa I cried in my sleep. The sound woke me up. Now I don’t think about it at all except when I read a story like yours. It does get better.
      - Little Star on at 9:53 pm
        
        Confused2, I just found this great post of Natalie: https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/what-are-you-afraid-of-worry-holding-yourself-back/
        Please read it, as usual it is very useful x
      - Fearless on at 4:54 pm
        
        Confusd2
        
        When I came on BR 2 years ago I sounded just like you. I had a whole load of ‘buts”:
        
        I know this man is making me miserable but… I feel lonely even when I’m with him but… I know I deserve better but… I feel he is emotionally void but…. I want to get out of this but…. his behaviour is very painful for me but… he says he doesn’t know what he wants but… he blows hot and cold and manages down my expectations but… he’s patently incapable of a normal healthy relationship but… he doesn’t want to be with me consistently and with both feet in but… He acts like Harry Houdini; he shows up and disappears at will but… he has no concern for how hurtful this is for me but….he doesn’t give a monkey’s f*ck about me, he’s not even capable of it, but….
        
        Remove all “buts” – that’s what you’re invested in. That’s what you’re clinging on to. You’re betting on his potential when he actually doesn’t have any and you know it. You desperately want to be “right” in betting on him (or you desperately don’t want “wrong”) – you’ve put so much into this and you’re still hoping for the pay-off, so you keep betting and the more you bet the more you lose. House always wins. You need to recognise that there is no pay-off. You lost. You lost the minute you started investing/betting on this farce of a “relationship”. Stop betting now. Accept the “unacceptable” – you made a very poor choice in him, and start doing right by yourself.
        
        cc above is right (so is Grace btw) that you think you’ve a better chance of changing him than you have of changing yourself. Yo don’t. You have NO chance of changing him and every chance of changing yourself. The smart money goes on you.
        hopeless on at 7:14 pm
        Fearless- Your post was so accurate in everything I feel and am going through. You are right I lost the second I started betting on potential. I think the hardest thing for me as well as for many is in the end realizing that in order for someone to do this to me that didn’t care about me at all. Six years wasted on someone who didn’t care if I cried in front of them for hurting me, 6 years of someone making promises too my son and not following through. Six years of complete BULLsh*t. I was not a person who put a lot of trust in people before him and when I did trust him that is what made me feel like I was safe with him and could believe in him. (obviously that was the beginning) Now I feel like I may never be able to trust someone again or even want to put myself out there to be hurt. I feel like such a bad mother for allowing this fool to be around my son and play daddy when in reality he wasn’t even playing daddy for his own kids.
        Fearless on at 1:33 am
        
        Hopeless (you should have gone for “hopeful” 🙂 it’s more optimistic)
        Six years is peanuts – I did about ten (on and off of course!) I was more “hopeful” than you. Lol.
        
        You know, I still do not think that a guy sticks around for six/ten years, even in the shadowy, ungraspable way they do because they do not care about us at all. I know my ex EUM cared about me; I have enough evidence of that (he helped me out in many a crisis and was able to give me emotional support – so long as it didn’t involve his emotions or his culpability); he cared on his terms, absolutely, and their was no compromise – the minute the situation or problem or discussion (anything!) required him to act like a man in a committed relationship, he was nowhere to be seen. He reminded me of a a ten year old schoolboy who’d blush and squirm if someone accused him of having a “girlfriend”! It really is emotional immaturity. They appear and act like capable, competent, even very clever, even gifted, men in every other way, which is why it’s easy to be attracted to them, but mention the word “girlfriend” and they run away, literally!
        
        Thankfully my daughter never got close to mine; he was helpful/generous to her on occasion and not unkind in any way at all but he was never around long enough or consistently enough for her to notice that he’d “gone”; she could take him or leave him – leave him mainly! Smart girl. Though I do feel responsible for not making better choices in men that may have impacted or enriched her life more constructively, consistently and positively.
        
        Anyway I blab, and am off topic again, I think (eek). What I wanted to say was that there’s no point blaming yourself – your son, I suspect, will get over it much faster than you will. I do think it’s cruel of these men to play with the emotions of a child though; he should be ashamed of himself for that. The thing you need to do now is look ahead; the difficult thing will be to support your son when you feel so broken. Confide in people close to you, ask them for some support through the next wee while; get you and your son as much as possible into the bosom of your extended family and/or friends; get him and you round other people who do genuinely love you. My advice as well is to be straight with your son, be truthful (in a age appropriate way) and, as bad as it makes *you* feel, if he cries let him, and give him lots of love (and truthful support – but don’t bad mouth the ex to him; that’s not his problem). No more self-blaming – as Nat says, you are human, you love and you want to be loved. There’s no crime in that. It’s what you do next that really matters now.
        hopeless on at 1:59 pm
        thank you your post means a lot to me. When you said your ex would be there for support but the second you needed him to be there emotionally he was gone is my situation exactly. My ex would endure so much of what i was going through and than it would become apparent that he had had enough and no longer could deal with my emotions. I often felt like I was being punished for showing emotion. Do you think that these men ever change and are able to be emotionally mature? My ex is 38 and from what I found out recently he has treated all of his ex’s the same when they were in a relationship.
        
        grace on at 12:04 am
        
        hopeless
        My father has been EU most of his life. Afraid of emotions in himself and in other people. Not an AC though. He has had a tough tough life so I forgive him. And I am happy, which makes it easier to forgive. Hard to forgive anyone when you’re miserable.
        Anyway, back to your question – recently, I notice a change in him. He’s softer, more amenable and … 86.
        So, yes, it can happen but don’t hold your breath.
    - jasmine on at 2:22 am
      
      titi is right
      
      confused2
      you cant make someone care, who doesnt want to care
      you cant make someone love you that doesnt love you
      
      retain your self respect and dont degrade yourself and beg for someone to care/change for you., its humiliating. it seems like you care and love too much whilst he doesnt spend any energy thinking about you. desperation and neediness is a turnoff. i know because i’ve been in your situation. men dont respond to womens emotional tirades. i held hope for 2 years and a bit, and he still didnt change. its not your fault , nor is it up to you to fix people.
      
      you have good memories, no-one is asking you to forget them or stop caring. you need to acknowledge the truth of who he really is. it seems like you love his potential.
      
      confused 2- i have an assignment for you
      
      write a pros and cons list of this man…i did mine and revisit it everyday…you will see the truth. even post it here and we’ll see the truth as well.
- grace on at 4:34 pm
  hopeless
  read “he’s scared, she’s scared” Your story is in there.
  Read “Mr Unavailable and the FBG” You are in there.
  It will help you see that your situation is not unique, it can be understood, it’s not just you, and there’s nothing you can do to change someone.
  He blew hot and cold for six years. Were you looking for him to blow hot and cold for another six years? Or for the rest of your life? How can he explain his behaviour to your satisfaction? Maybe after a life-changing event and intensive therapy he’ll get a clue and you’ll bump into him (by accident cos when he’s grown up he won’t be bothering his exes) and he’ll explain himself. You could wait for this unlikely day or .. let it go.
  - hopeless on at 6:38 pm
    I get that I should walk away- its hard obviously. Not only was he in a relationship with myself he was also a father to my son and we all lived together. He says there is nothing between us anymore but it came out of no where. So what do I do know? Yes we had our problems but it feels like I just got a divorce and my son keeps asking when he is going to see my ex again because that was really the only dad he knew.
    - grace on at 9:54 pm
      hopeless
      “he’s scared she’s scared” covers how you should approach relationships when you have children.
      I do feel for you but he’s gonna take you all down.
      If you can find a nice church they’ll have activities for children led by men (trustworthy men). I get that you want a male role model for your son but it doesn’t sound like this hot-cold guy is a good candidate.
      - Hopeless on at 4:47 am
        I looked for the he,s scared she’s scared but I couldn’t find it do you know the link
        grace on at 10:30 am
        
        hope
        
        probably on amazon.com too
        
        hopeless on at 3:45 pm
        
        thanks
- Fearless on at 4:09 pm
  
  Hopeless,
  
  I am the woman who had an epic EUM relationsh*t. I recognise everything you’re saying. See this bit:
  “I know I should be happy that he ended it but there is a part of me that feels like is he done or is this still part of his game.”
  
  Don’t concern yourself about whether he’s done or not (who cares) – YOU need to be done. Tip: stop looking to him to make you feel good about yourself. Learn how to feel good about yourself – all by yourself! If you can that you won’t care whether he’s thinks he’s done with you or not cos you’ll be so, so done with him;he’ll be so over, and it’ll also ensure you never get into these validation seeking crappy hot and cold relationhsits ever again.
Scarlet on at 10:07 am

I think I’m on a different time zone to most of you ladies, so I’m probably a bit slow in responding to different posts.

Anyway, thank you Tulipa, Purplelily, Cc and Jasmine for your supportive replies. I know it will take time, but in the meantime I feel like I just want to die. Rightly or wrongly, I miss him, his potential, the connection and most of all I miss the hope of something better with him. I am in therapy and have been on and off for years – so clearly that doesn’t work!!

He said he wants us to remain best friends until he’s “right” in himself so he can love me like he should. But I know that will mean everything stays the same and he gets the connection and keeps his best friend without having to commit to actually seeing me on a regular basis. And if that’s the problem, that he doesn’t actually want to be with me, then that hurts. And maybe this is the first time I have actually understood that. I have been busy chasing his validation and his words instead of taking notice of his actions (or non actions). As much as he clearly has a problem with intimacy because he wants me desperately sometimes and then shuts me out other times, I really believe I have trained him to be that way with me. I have forgiven him a hundred times when he hasn’t followed through, so he knows I’ll accept crumbs. And now that I have said no contact, I am in so much pain that I can feel myself wanting that fix of a phone call, some validation, to hear him say that he loves me. But I am resisting. I know that fix just puts me back into the addiction and more long term pain.

Thank God for this blog. I don’t have a mum or any sisters and all of my friends appear to be happily married so I think they think I’m a loser for not being able to remain in a relationship. But all of my significant relationships have ended the same way (including my 15 year marriage) – with him saying he loves me BUT…. You’re the most beautiful woman I’ve ever known, BUT i don’t want to be with you. I am loved, but not wanted. That’s an awful realisation. I feel like a little girl that nobody wants around.

Anyway, forgive me for rambling, but as I said I don’t really have anyone who has the slightest understanding of my situation to talk to. Thanks for listening.
- cc on at 2:03 pm
  
  scarlet-
  we all know how much it sucks. because it sucks badly.
  
  please:
  – do not chase potential, you know where that leads: nowhere
  – do not wait for a guy, be his fallback, while your life trots right on past you
  – do not put your value in anyone else’s hands, much less some stunted loser who can’t get his own head out of his ass (by the way, is he in therapy, on his own proactive healing journey? no? then what can he possibly contribute?)
  
  you must take control of your own worth, give yourself love and comfort and validation. if you don’t, you will stay on this awful, horrible treadmill.
  
  please believe me: as i have healed and learned to love me (i know, barf), the validation of other people, particularly those who are themselves broken emotionally, is plummeting in value. to have some unqualified guy validate me now seems arbitrary, random, ludicrous. it is YOU who are assigning his opinion value – take it away! give that value to YOUR opinion!
  
  the transition period you’re in is very painful. just keep going. work on yourself. read all natalie’s posts about self-esteem, google building self-esteem and learn to build yourself up. if you stay in this work, it WILL pay off. oh, and maybe get a new therapist, therapy should be helping you way more than it is.
  - jasmine on at 3:36 pm
    @@ scarlet, as CC says, therapy should help. please change to someone else!
    i was told that changing therapists is fine. where i live, i get free 10 sessions provided by the government and the nurse who was filling in my mental health plan said its perfectly fine to change to someone who you feel connected with. so please do it and let us know how you go. many hugs to everyone here xx
    - Scarlet on at 9:03 pm
      The current therapist I am seeing is probably the best that I have seen. I will stay with her for a while. I was just saying that for years I was supposed to be building my self esteem with therapists, but I still fell for a EUM and did not set one boundary. It appears it’s a lifetime of change to undo possibly what was instilled in me as a very small child – that I’m not a priority.
      - jasmine on at 2:39 am
        
        same with me me scarlet. its the bullying from age 5 . an issue that wasnt really addressed, that has caused me to be as i am..a person with no self esteem or boundaries. EUM was like the ‘bully’ in terms of why i spent so long trying to please him, bought him gifts and even texted him for his birthday this year (even after he didnt contact me for many months), which i got no reply back…pathetic behaviour on my part. but im finally going to see a therapist to get my life back on track.
- jasmine on at 2:35 pm
  
  @ scarlet “but in the meantime I feel like I just want to die. Rightly or wrongly, I miss him, his potential, the connection and most of all I miss the hope of something better with him”
  
  me too scarlet, me too. i believed that as well, thats why i stayed..
  
  look you said that “He said he wants us to remain best friends until he’s “right” in himself so he can love me like he should. ”
  
  but how long is that going to take??? its the same as my player EUM that is now dating someone else because he couldnt commit to me, and therefore told me he doesnt want to ‘use’ me…so my player EUM is therefore using a younger girl to get what he wants in his pseudo relationship and in the meantime saying he’ll call me. when?, when HE decides to change his player ways coz he knows im a relationship girl.WTF?
  
  We should not wait for these morons to weed their way back in when it suits them. thats what your guy is trying to do and thats what my guy is trying to do….
  
  i can imagine my EUM player trying to come back to me saying and i even have a feeling he will try it…and say “look, im sorry, i was a player..i tried it, but you were right about everything, i want you back” blahhh
  
  scarlet, the way i see it, if they can’t fully commit to you, then he doesnt want you. because if all of our EUM’s did, they’d make it work and not use all these bullsh*t excuses.
  
  “I have forgiven him a hundred times when he hasn’t followed through, so he knows I’ll accept crumbs.” i did many many times! he even ‘cried’ ‘held my hand’ begging me for forgiveness” men know the emotional tactics work , so they use it. the same as your Ex trying to plead into your emotional sense.
  
  these men really know how to crawl back in and guess what if we want to crawl back into their life, they will ignore ignore ignore us!!! s he did with the 3 messages i sent him throughout the 4 months of not seeing him.
  
  and the reason i think EUM said he’ll call me after ramadan and failed to mention that he;s in a relationship when he called me, is that he’s keeping me there in case his relationship fails, or he’s comparing me to her or he wants to see me now to see which girl he likes better….so much immaturity…if you like someone, you like them, no fishing around for other people to ‘try’ being in a relationship with
  
  “I really believe I have trained him to be that way with me.” i dont think you’ve trained him. he is who is he is and he will continue to be that way with another woman. its not you! you just allowed him to carry on his useless ways. i give you an example of my ex. he wanted to treat me casually like a young girl and i dont want to be treated that way and he got the message.
  
  the reason my ex downgraded from me (30 yr old) to a 20 yr old is because a girl like that is safe. she won’t ‘expect’ the things that a mature girl would and which i did. i wanted to be wined and dined and wanted him to step up and be a man.
  
  ..i have no idea, but any decent man, when asked “what’s new with you”, will tell me “by the way i have a new GF”, which he failed to.
  
  “”and now that I have said no contact, I am in so much pain that I can feel myself wanting that fix of a phone call, some validation, to hear him say that he loves me. But I am resisting. I know that fix just puts me back into the addiction and more long term pain.””
  
  believe me, i want that fix soo much and today i was sick to my stomach literally that i had panic attacks and had to have a shower and went out shopping to ease the pain. i also gave in and unblocked my FB to stalk.. it was a bad day. but i’ve since cancelled it completely.
  
  im thinking it this way, i dont want him thinking he has a ‘psycho’ ex girlfriend floating around calling him and being desperate and needy.. i want to act in a mature way and i suggest you do the same. i think the best revenge is him later on thinking” you know what such and such was a great person and i can’t believe i let her go”…too bad for them. i’d rather be that girl than the crazy ex.
  
  therapy does work, but you have to believe in it!! hence, the reason im starting it on monday with the full mind set that im there to heal.
  
  “and all of my friends appear to be happily married so I think they think I’m a loser for not being able to remain in a relationship. But all of my significant relationships have ended the same way (including my 15 year marriage) – with him saying he loves me BUT…. You’re the most beautiful woman I’ve ever known, BUT i don’t want to be with you. I am loved, but not wanted. That’s an awful realisation. I feel like a little girl that nobody wants around.””
  
  i feel the same and worse.. look, i know we keep hearing it alot, but self esteem and confidence its whats missing here. thats been the problem as well as not having boundaries and standards. all relationships are learning experiences. i know im better and different from my experience. i would never rush into a relationship with someone as i did with EUM. i’ve learnt the lesson in a hard way after 2 years. but regardless of the time, the fact is you know better! i know better! so as natalie as written countless times, we are better equipped to notice now the red flags and hot/cold behaviours and avoid.
  
  dont be hard on yourself! you are a really good sincere genuine person. it;s these men who are assclowns.
  - Lilian Lauderdale on at 5:25 pm
    
    What am amazing post Jasmine.
    
    @ scarlet “but in the meantime I feel like I just want to die. Rightly or wrongly, I miss him, his potential, the connection and most of all I miss the hope of something better with him”
    
    I am in the same place right now…. excruciating pain, heavy heart, uncontrollable tears. I know the reason I stayed was because I was betting on the potential that I thought we had. And of course, because he would say all the right things to keep me hoping that it would be that way as soon as he “worked” on himself. Except he never did work on himself or on us.
    My EUM kept asking permission to hit the reset button saying, “I just want to get back to where we were in the beginning.” I now realize that translates to fun, flirting, laughing and NO EXPECTATIONS. I don’t believe you can go back to phase 1. You have to build a relationship and as you build it perpetuates forward. Asking me to hit the reset button is hurtful and confusing and left me with absolute ambiguity. I never knew where I stood, when I would be given the time of day to hang out or chat, or if I was even going to receive any affection at all when I saw him.
    I tried to do and give more and more thinking that would prove to him I was worth committing for. Let me tell you, it’s soul crushing.
    I allowed this behavior to go and on because I truly believed I was giving him the time he needed to figure things out and work on himself. But enough is enough. I would think 1.5 years is enough time to at least take the steps to start working on yourself – if that’s truly what you want to do. I didn’t want to accept the reality. And the reality is that now that I am NC he isn’t contacting me or missing me or showing an ounce of remorse. The reality at the end is the hardest to accept and plays on my fears the most – that this person never actually loved and cared for me like I wanted to believe.
    I agree that I don’t want to be the crazy, pyscho ex and am trying to handle this with more dignity than I had in the relationship. While I know I should be doing that for myself, I also don’t want to give him an excuse as to why he treated me the way he did and an easy out – “well of course I didn’t commit to you. You are a crazy stalker.”
    
    It’s so hurtful to not feel wanted from someone who claimed to want you so much. I am only on day 1 of NC (I have tried before) and it’s so hard!
    - jasmine on at 1:41 am
      
      thanks lilian, same to you. what resonates from your words is this
      when your ex asked to go at the beginning. well of course as these men want to experience the ‘highs’ of when they first know someone. typical player behaviour. they don’t want to work for a relationship. its funny but every day as i analyse and work through things, my rose coloured glasses are off. i see clarity and ex EUM for who he is. its really quite sad that they follow the same pattern. its boring , predictable and shallow actually. i also feel EUM disappeared on me because he knows how attached i was to him. which is true. i did have my emotional tirade in the past when i didnt want him to leave me and thought he was the best thing since sliced bread., but thanks to the separation, i see him for what he is. NC is really the best method of awakening you to the reality. it allows you to deal and focus on what the hell’s going on and why you’re feeling the way you’re feeling and if you were truly in love or living in fantasy. if anything, these men give you clarity and it takes time, but you’ll soon realize they are doing you a favour.
      
      lilian, this is what i said to my sister the other day as you said” I miss him, his potential, the connection and most of all I miss the hope of something better with him”
      
      and then my sister said. so you you didnt really love him then, you loved his potential. then she asked me to name the specific things i loved about him. i didnt know how to answer her.
      
      what you wrote lilian is completely the way i felt and acted. i have my moments and miss his company, but the man is what he is and we’re actually better than them. i want a better man, not a sorry excuse for one and a crappy player that can’t even be a proper player. aren’t players supposed to really charm the boots out of a woman. buy her things, take her for dinners. etc. my EUM player couldn’t even be a real player. ouchh
      - grace on at 11:01 am
        
        jasmine
        yes, they are boring. While we are experiencing the hot and cold, it seems exciting as we don’t know what will happen next but in moments of clarity when I was with the playa I was … quite bored and much preferred chatting to his friends, who were more grown up (though the same age), interesting, interested and not shallow.
  - Fearless on at 6:18 pm
    
    Once you accept optional position you can never be anything else. There’s no upgrade. It’s not that you can be an option today and chosen tomorrow – once an option that’s all you get to be; you are from that point forward optional. Period. Permanently. And it’s us who give these men the option of treating us like options, therefore it is really us who are treating ourselves like options. They are not doing it to us, we are doing it to ourselves. Don”t be a option and you won’t be ‘optional’.
Tinkerbell on at 7:16 pm

There’s an excellent book called” The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem” by Nathaniel Branden that I’m currently reading. It enforces the fact that so much of what we think of ourselves and the way we think and behave towards others is governed by our self esteem. I’m seeing a psychologist also who uses Behavioral Cognitive Therapy, the who, what , when , where and why we think and behave as we do. When you are able to find answers to more of these questions you are more easily able to make the necessary changes and form a healthier outlook on the future.
Awakened on at 10:42 pm

@NeedSoneAir something’s fishy there. When his roommate girlfriend comes over he doesn’t want you there. Wants you to leave?? I hate to say this but he’s lying. A man that has nothing to hide from his GF is not going to be asking her to leave just cause his roommates GF is coming over. What he meant to say was I need for you to leave cause my OW that I’ll be screwing is coming over you don’t to be no where in sight. Now you get it?? …. Flush him and move on….
Chanel_Lover on at 4:26 pm
Can this be applied to friends as well ? Both female and male? I have a guy friend who lives in another city (a good one hour away) that likes to lay it on heavy (flirty texts, calls at odd hours) and will even make it a point to meet up with me to spend time (pays for everything, no questions asked) when he’s in the city I live in. However once he’s back to home base… its like I don’t exist anymore, even when I try to reach out and ask him how his day is. Should I just ignore him when he tries to hit me up ? (no we haven’t had sex-he’s just an overly affectionate friend-and yet cold at the same time)
- Christabel on at 4:02 pm
  
  Chanel Lover,
  You can absolutely apply nearly all of Natalie’s truths and advice to male (even female) friends. I had to flush one several years ago who did all this blowing hot and cold mess as well as much worse.
  Men that blow hot and cold will not change, and they will always be more comfortable leaving you on unstable ground. Your comfort and happiness isn’t even secondary, it’s not on their radar at all. You deserve friendships and relationships with consistency, respect, care, and love, so I say if your level of discomfort with this guy is so great it has brought you to comment here, No Contact just might be your best option for you to start putting your needs first.
wren on at 9:27 pm

“Men that blow hot and cold will not change, and they will always be more comfortable leaving you on unstable ground.”

Interesting, I always wondered why my “exEUM” would seem to go out of his way to do something emotionally devastating to me just before he took off for a few days (we lived together). I was already feeling sad that he’d be going off to party without me (and I wasn’t welcome to come) but then he’d stick the knife in one way or another before he left; I realise now because he felt he’d have more control over me while he was away if I was reeling/hurting and off balance from his latest installment of his special brand of assclownery. One of the first times, and the most blatant, he was planning a weekend away visiting his buddies and the day before he left he told me he was starting to question our relationship and if we should be together. Then he left, leaving me to lick my wounds (which had no chance of healing, because it was left up in the air). While he was away he didn’t call or see how I was doing, even though he must have KNOWN I was hurting and in shock (it was the first time he’d suggested breaking up and told me that he was questioning his feelings for me). The next and just as bad or worse time, he was going away for a two week boys’ summer road trip and a day or two before he left I asked him if he’d think I was hot if he didn’t know me and saw me walking down the street (looking back now it was such a pathetic cry for validation, approval etc) I said this because he routinely told me how hot other women were and I wanted to get a clear sense that even if I was only one of many, I WAS one of the millions of hot laydays he appreciated. He acted like he didn’t understand the question, then when pressed said “maybe, sometimes….” in an uncertain tone of voice. I said WHAT? Maybe, sometimes you’d think I was hot? He said I guess I just don’t really see you that way. I said WHAT? You’re my fricking boyfriend. How do you see me, like a sister? He said, sometimes I find you attractive, but mostly you’re just [my name]. Which I took to mean humdrum, average, nothing special. Considering he loved to regale me with the wonder of beauty he saw in other women this was really too much. I even looked in the mirror and saw myself as unattractive, and then had a paranoid realisation/awakening that my whole life I’d been fooling myself that I was attractive and really I was not. (Even though all my life people have told me I’m very pretty etc.) Next day he took off with his guy friends and I knew what that meant, a bunch of single friends and him, all ogling the talent as they drank their way around East Europe. This was the last straw and when he got back I told him I’d booked a flight out of there and wasn’t coming back 🙂

Perhaps I’ve gone too much in to the detail but it’s therapeutic to share and there might be other women on BR who have struggled with similar acts of cruelty. To bring it back, it’s so interesting that he would do these things before he went away, almost as if it was a calculating move. Could he really have been that sinister? Or was it his subconscious at work? Cool thing is, after 7 weeks of NC I care less than less about the answer to that question, even though we were together for nearly two years and I put him at the centre of my universe. I can almost taste complete freedom YAY! Thanks Natalie and the BR family!
- Lilian Lauderdale on at 10:56 pm
  
  Wren – I went through the same exact thing with my exEUM who I was with for nearly 9 years. He would constantly ogle over women when we were out and always mentioned how a woman at the bar or our waitress was attracted to him. Then he would proceed to tell me that I am “plain potatoes” and that guys only thing I’m “cute” once they get to know me. It was so hurtful coming from him…and I believed him (sometimes still think I do).
  
  He would also turn all happy or exciting occasions for me into a nightmare. Whether it was my birthday, where he would cancel 30 minutes before and not show up to my birthday dinner, or break up with me before graduation, he was always sure to ruin a great moment in my life.
  
  It’s a struggle to move past everything he put in my head and I feel sad that I stayed in that for my entire 20s – which is such an amazing time in your life for self discovery. I left that relationship not knowing who I was, what I wanted, or how I even felt about myself (and what I did feel wasn’t good).
  
  I am now struggling to get out of a relationship that is not nearly as verbally hurtful – but he certainly blows hot and cold and can’t decide if I am worth committing to despite his avid commitment in the beginning.
  
  Good for you on your NC and glad you are feeling free from the emotional burden. 🙂
wren on at 1:26 pm

Thanks Lillian, thanks very much for replying. It actually lightens my burden to know that you went through a similar thing (that sounds heartless, but you know what I mean). Interesting that he conceded you could be found as cute. The only thing mine could say confidently was that I was cute. He said he didn’t see me as sexy, although he didn’t doubt other guys did (weird to admit that!). Then later, he turned it all around and denied he’d ever said I wasn’t sexy, just that he didn’t find me sexy at that exact point in time (if that had been the case, and he was a normal man, he’d have said of course I find you sexy, just not right now. But he didn’t say that). It is very crushing because he is the person you most want to find you attractive, and he seems to find others so wonderful (looking back now, some of the women he said were beautiful weren’t even that great. Certainly not as lovely as me 😉 ) So although I took it at the time to mean I wasn’t very attractive, I know realise it was all about lowering my own view of myself, possibly because he thought that if I felt good about myself then while he was away I could have the confidence to meet/flirt with other guys. Or, it was just part of the grander scheme of devaluing me.

SO INTERESTING as well that he told you other women were attracted to him, like the waitress and women at the bar. I think our ex’s were very similar in their nasty game plan. I remember one day we were walking out of the house and a young woman was standing in the hall talking on the phone. After we passed, he told me that she’d given him the glad eye and said “nice man” to her friend on the phone. I didn’t hear because they spoke a different language (we lived in Holland). When we came back from the shop she was still there and I glared at her, thinking “can you not see I’m with him and he’s my boyfriend?” At home he started to go on about it, how she looked at him like she wanted to jump on him, and why didn’t I look at him that way. Why did I never initiate sex, maybe we weren’t sexually compatible!! All this because of some girl on the phone and WHO THE HELL KNOWS if it even happened or if he was just dreaming the whole thing up. He worked hard to create an atmosphere around us in which it seemed young attractive women were never more than a few feet away, trying to steal him away from me.

What a complete jerkoff. So glad I’ve gone NC.

Oh and also – Lillian, after all you’ve been through, do you really want to wait for a man to decide if you’re good enough for him to commit to? How strongly can he feel if he’s so unsure? Don’t you want to feel confident knowing that your man did all he could to be with you cause he wanted you that much? It doesn’t sound good to me 🙁 I’d hate for you to be wasting more of your precious life (especially the prime of your life as you are in now) on someone who doesn’t sound all that worthy of your love. Look after you! NC!!!! 😉
- Lilian Lauderdale on at 8:04 pm
  
  Wren – It’s amazing how I can read your story and know immediately that it is not a healthy place for you to be and would advise anyone to get out. And yet I stayed for 9 years. I knew I wasn’t happy but I also felt so low about myself that I believed every word he said and didn’t think anyone would want me.
  
  So yes, it’s just as hurtful to be in a situation where I love someone and they can’t decide if they want me and would do all he can to be with me. He’s always telling me what he would lose if he were with me and never what he would gain. And of course his fear of what he might lose is never as great as his fear of losing me. I am hitting a tipping point where instead of dreaming about being together I dream about the day I can finally tell him to never contact me until he can decide. Thanks for your response and supportive words. I don’t want to waste any more time.
  - Fearless on at 12:05 am
    
    Lilian
    
    I said this on another thread but it may be worth repeating: When we are waiting for a man to ‘decide’, we really need to realise that he has already decided (even if he can’t admit it to you or to himself); that we are not waiting for him to make up his mind, we are merely hoping that he will change his mind.
    
    It’s demoralising and soul destroying. No wonder you are in turmoil. Please stop waiting for him to change his mind and take a decision for yourself. Do what you expect him to do. Choose. Do for yourself what he cannot do. Choose You.
    
    Nat often says, rightly, that we are either in or we’re out. We know which he is. Which are you? And if you are ‘in’, what exactly is it that you are in? Cos if you are ‘in’ then you’re in all by yourself. What use is that to man or beast?
    
    I say again, stop waiting (and grumbling) for him “to decide” what’s happening to you and your life (he’s made his decision) when you can’t do it for yourself. I did this too with the ex EUM. What I realise now is that I had a bit of a cheek to call him “undecided” about me when I couldn’t make a decision either about me! You are doing exactly what you are complaining to him about (so did I; no judgement here – just the benefit of my hindsight if it’s any use to you). Take control of what happens to you next.
teachable on at 3:41 pm

Yr welcome scarlett. Nat has a name for women like us. Florence nightingales. If you get her ebook you can learn a little more about how to give up the idea that trying to help or rescue others in an intimate r.ship is ok (it’s not)

And Grace, I couldn’t agree more. Toxic r.sh*t’s are just like rotting limbs. The sooner we lop them off the better. I still sometimes think of my deceased ex AC, mostly as there has been no time for proper grieving due to studying. My primary thought is RELIEF that I managed to get 6 mths of NC before getting the news of his death…
Unsure when on at 7:21 pm

Wow, this was him exactly to a T. I just ended it last night. I’m so glad I read this today so if he does think about trying this out again, I will know what is going on. I love you Nat. Thank you again for all you do for us. It’s good to be able to see and read clear headed thinking when in the midst of crazy town.
Unsure when on at 11:47 am

Thank goodness for these words of wisdom. I came very close to texting him last night. Had half a text written out while crying my eyes out…then I came here and read this again and again….and deleted that stupid text without sending it, dried my tears and stopped putting more value in him than he is worth. I am the one with value. He is the one with a penis for a brain.
Lulu on at 6:13 pm

I haven’t had a meaningful relationship for aa couple of years. I’m 25 years, independent but emotionally unavailable and I attract unavailable men; this post hit me hard. Only because the feeling is too familiar. Its like I’m stuck in a rut. I don’t know how to overcome.
anonon on at 2:45 am

So glad to be able to read this and know I am not the only one. If you don’t mind, I would like to share my story just because I need to tell it. The guy I was living with for 14 months, packed when I was asleep and left the next day with no explanation. I had no contact for over a week and was just looking for a reason why. He came over to visit after a weekend camping trip he went on with friends and said he left because he felt like we rushed in in the beginning and he didn’t want to live together but was willing to work on it living apart. I agreed he moved in too soon and wanted to try. So a week later he informs me we are just dating and I am trying to move too fast and that he is going on a fishing trip for 12 days and we are on a break during that time. I didn’t hear from him the whole two weeks and then when he came back he texted me to ask me how a job interview went. (you have no idea what I went through those twelve days and was hurt by him not even sending 1 how r u text or anything) When he left he knew I was going through a rough patch. I was recently diagnosed with PTSD, just lost a job and was looking for a new one. I asked him how fishing was and he said I don’t feel like telling u so I told him I didn’t want to discuss my job interview because if he really wanted to know he should have asked while he was away. I then did tell him later on that I got the job and was happy and he didn’t even congratulate me. I ended my evening tonight by texting him that if this is how it is going to be I am done and that I am half sorry I missed him while he was gone fishing and that I don’t deserve this treatment. Is this a hot and cold guy or does he just not love me because I have PTSD?

FAQs

Dealing with Someone Who Blows Hot and Cold: Is It Worth It? ›

Inconsistency in relationships is unhealthy and destabilising. Blowing hot and cold is never a good sign and it is in fact a code red alert because you can never trust in this person enough to know what to expect from them. Your relationship will not be able to have balance.

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How do you respond to someone who blows hot and cold? ›

When this happens, you should stand your ground – ignore them, be yourself, be independent and show them you are not affected by their behaviour. If you give in and satisfy their ego, even just once, they know you will always react and run to them.

What is the psychology behind blowing hot and cold? ›

Whether conscious or unconscious, hot and cold behaviour usually activates a cycle of longing and pursuit in a person. It is a tactic used because it sustains a level of uncertainty and of course, interest.

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Do narcissists act hot and cold? ›

Most generally, they are warm with you if you are making them feel good about themselves or if they are trying to get information from you that they desperately need to use against you. They are cold with you if you have figured out they are a narcissist or they give you the silent treatment.

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What is the most manipulative personality disorder? ›

Individuals with the following mental health issues are often prone to manipulative behavior:

Antisocial personality disorder,
Borderline personality disorder,
Conduct disorder,
Factitious disorder,
Histrionic personality disorder,
Narcissistic personality disorder.

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Is being hot and cold a red flag? ›

Inconsistency in relationships is unhealthy and destabilising. Blowing hot and cold is never a good sign and it is in fact a code red alert because you can never trust in this person enough to know what to expect from them.

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When should you not confront someone? ›

Generally, when it's not an important or consequential issue and/or you are not willing to invest in the other person and/or won't be interacting with again, it's probably not worth confronting them. If to confront is the answer, ask yourself if you feel ready to approach them in a way they'll be able to hear.